Not a new kit Launch.... Tigers Together membership

[GB72]

If things are that bad why do we also take every opportunity to say we're going to spend the full salary cap?

Things should be addressed on their merits. For season ticket holders this offers limited benefits over a season ticket alone (a new shirt worth c.£75, for the middle level members a women's ticket worth either £36 or £48 depending on your current status as a women's ticket holder & 10% off next year's ticket so £30 to £50 for most). So if you were going to buy the shirt anyway it's an extra £70 to £100ish extra depending.

So not much, but not much in return.

One FAQ I can't find answered is what happens if I "subscribe" for a month, get my shirt for effectively £14 or so, then cancel the subscription?

On the last point, I am guessing that you are making a fixed terms subscription for a year and so you would remain liable for the full amount. Same with most annual memberships.

[AViewFromLe2]

People do seem to be missing my point, I have expressed concerns about the future. I applaud the club for seeking new revenue streams. I take issue with those that say this is a plan to bring payments from fans who are unable to attend matches. In the main it is a plan to obtain yet more money from season ticket holders that is why they are targeting season ticket holders with e-mails and phone calls from.p!ayers to.promote this plan.
We do need funds to.pay up to the salary cap, it used to be achieved by actually playing matches on a regular basis so people got into the habit of watching rugby.. Season ticket holders get much less for their money than they did a few years back despite paying much more, our club is one that is in agreement with the reduced ring fenced league which in my opinion makes the season ticket less attractive. This new scheme may offer an alternative to the season ticket, I presume that is why it was announced after the majority had renewed for next season. It will be around this time next year when we will see the true benefits or otherwise of the various changes. Fans are not bottomless moneypits they do want value for money and they do want rugby matches to watch.

Both of those things I have highlighted, you are just completely wrong on. This is a membership option, it is aimed specifically at those who are remote and cannot go to games regularly. Season ticket holders have been sent it, for two reasons. 1) some may feel they wish to have a membership on top of their ST. It would be remiss for the club to not explore this avenue. 2) Whilst it may not interest that individual ST holder, they may well have friends or family that this membership is better suited to. By advertising the benefits of it to ST Holders, it increases the chances of that ST holder selling it to possible interested friends. No ST holder is being forced to sign up to this and it nonsense to claim that ST holders are being rinsed further.

Secondly the club are not in favour of a 10 team league. In the interview with Andrea, she made reference to the fact the club are not fans of it and the reduced fixture list. Now I would prefer the club to be more public with their position, and campaign for what they feel is the right position. But it is just not true to say they in agreement with a reduced league.

[Rugbygramps]

In reality I’m sure not many are in favour of a 10 team league. The issue is that championship clubs including Ealing, who have just released 25 players, have shown a complete lack of readiness to move up to the premiership both on and off the field.
IMO the only other option would be an English and Welsh league, which I would imagine at least some of the cash strapped welsh regions would be in favour off

[johnthegriff]

I was at the AGM and our club was definitely in favour of a bigger slice of the Premiership cake and fewer matches. Andrea was not in favour of frightening she personally felt matches would be more competitive with the jeopardy of relegation.
I do not feel.I am wrong in saying that the new membership is targeting season ticket holders with the club specifically emailing them with personal messages from players. The choice of whether to pay the extra or not is entirely up to the individual, all I have done is express my personal concerns and my preference for the club to increase revenue by playing more regular matches and giving better value to the season ticket holder.

[SETiger]

In reality I’m sure not many are in favour of a 10 team league. The issue is that championship clubs including Ealing, who have just released 25 players, have shown a complete lack of readiness to move up to the premiership both on and off the field.
IMO the only other option would be an English and Welsh league, which I would imagine at least some of the cash strapped welsh regions would be in favour off

An English and Welsh league does seem the most attractive option (for anyone that hates the idea of franchises, or RFU control, or zombie clubs being allowed to cast off their debts and return). It's not obvious that the economics would work though. Would broadcasters be willing to pay more than they do for the Premiership? Would the Welsh clubs end up with more income than they do now? Would they be able to spend up to the Premiership cap, or would the cap have to be reduced just to make it a remotely level playing field?

That's before the politics comes into to it, ie would the WRU be happy, and what would be the reaction of the rest of the URC.

Would love to see it though, and yes I can't see any other way to get back to 12 teams unless Wasps and London Irish are parachuted back in with lots of someone else's money.

[GB72]

In reality I’m sure not many are in favour of a 10 team league. The issue is that championship clubs including Ealing, who have just released 25 players, have shown a complete lack of readiness to move up to the premiership both on and off the field.
IMO the only other option would be an English and Welsh league, which I would imagine at least some of the cash strapped welsh regions would be in favour off

An English and Welsh league does seem the most attractive option (for anyone that hates the idea of franchises, or RFU control, or zombie clubs being allowed to cast off their debts and return). It's not obvious that the economics would work though. Would broadcasters be willing to pay more than they do for the Premiership? Would the Welsh clubs end up with more income than they do now? Would they be able to spend up to the Premiership cap, or would the cap have to be reduced just to make it a remotely level playing field?

That's before the politics comes into to it, ie would the WRU be happy, and what would be the reaction of the rest of the URC.

Would love to see it though, and yes I can't see any other way to get back to 12 teams unless Wasps and London Irish are parachuted back in with lots of someone else's money.

A good point. You would need the TV revenue to up by 10% per club and I cannot see that being attractive. Not sure any of the championship clubs would be a big enough draw to get that sort of increase either.

I also assume nothing could happen until the current TV deal ends.

The biggest problem we have is that we only have one broadcaster interested and they are getting a bargain deal every time as there appears to be no other option. Compare TNT to the French broadcasters who want to expand the game and have a better product to attract more viewers so they pump in more money. Look at the deal that they have just signed.

TV money is the way to increase revenue as I think most other sources are tapped out. That means that the Premiership needs to start trying to attract other broadcasters now so as there is another deal on the table when the next renewal comes. If they do not, we have nothing left to sell, we have sold all of the matches and so now we having nothing left to offer TNT.

Sadly, the way I see this ending up is with a 2 league URC with maybe 4-6 Premiership clubs being invited to join. The other (maybe worse) alternative is a global fixture list, a short league with reduced numbers on at the same time as Super Rugby and players then contracted off to play internationals for the rest of the year. We are probably losing one club away from the end of the Premiership as a viable tournament and I really cannot see the 10 we have now surviving. For all the calls for relegation, the drop would probably end the relegated club and you are then left with less attractive clubs from the championship trying to fill the gap.

[SETiger]

In reality I’m sure not many are in favour of a 10 team league. The issue is that championship clubs including Ealing, who have just released 25 players, have shown a complete lack of readiness to move up to the premiership both on and off the field.
IMO the only other option would be an English and Welsh league, which I would imagine at least some of the cash strapped welsh regions would be in favour off

An English and Welsh league does seem the most attractive option (for anyone that hates the idea of franchises, or RFU control, or zombie clubs being allowed to cast off their debts and return). It's not obvious that the economics would work though. Would broadcasters be willing to pay more than they do for the Premiership? Would the Welsh clubs end up with more income than they do now? Would they be able to spend up to the Premiership cap, or would the cap have to be reduced just to make it a remotely level playing field?

That's before the politics comes into to it, ie would the WRU be happy, and what would be the reaction of the rest of the URC.

Would love to see it though, and yes I can't see any other way to get back to 12 teams unless Wasps and London Irish are parachuted back in with lots of someone else's money.

A good point. You would need the TV revenue to up by 10% per club and I cannot see that being attractive. Not sure any of the championship clubs would be a big enough draw to get that sort of increase either.

I also assume nothing could happen until the current TV deal ends.

The biggest problem we have is that we only have one broadcaster interested and they are getting a bargain deal every time as there appears to be no other option. Compare TNT to the French broadcasters who want to expand the game and have a better product to attract more viewers so they pump in more money. Look at the deal that they have just signed.

TV money is the way to increase revenue as I think most other sources are tapped out. That means that the Premiership needs to start trying to attract other broadcasters now so as there is another deal on the table when the next renewal comes. If they do not, we have nothing left to sell, we have sold all of the matches and so now we having nothing left to offer TNT.

Sadly, the way I see this ending up is with a 2 league URC with maybe 4-6 Premiership clubs being invited to join. The other (maybe worse) alternative is a global fixture list, a short league with reduced numbers on at the same time as Super Rugby and players then contracted off to play internationals for the rest of the year. We are probably losing one club away from the end of the Premiership as a viable tournament and I really cannot see the 10 we have now surviving. For all the calls for relegation, the drop would probably end the relegated club and you are then left with less attractive clubs from the championship trying to fill the gap.

The other probable spanner in the works is the share held by CVC. And nobody - literally, nobody - ever bothers to mention CVC in any discussion of where a solution might come from, which rather speaks to the impact they've made on the game.

[Rugbygramps]

Excellent post GB72.
As with all things it’s someone being brave enough to make the first step to start asking the important questions. I wonder just how in favour the welsh regions, and their fans are of South African inclusion in the URC, the Scots also for that matter.
In terms of tv figures it used to be that welsh games were streamed on BBC Wales, or S4C, would that be a way of getting terrestrial companies involved.
As you say we are one club failing from the premiership ceasing to be a viable entity, and I know many fans are against the regional or franchise model. The championship clubs do not have the resources to move up, therefore other avenues need to be looked at

[GB72]

An English and Welsh league does seem the most attractive option (for anyone that hates the idea of franchises, or RFU control, or zombie clubs being allowed to cast off their debts and return). It's not obvious that the economics would work though. Would broadcasters be willing to pay more than they do for the Premiership? Would the Welsh clubs end up with more income than they do now? Would they be able to spend up to the Premiership cap, or would the cap have to be reduced just to make it a remotely level playing field?

That's before the politics comes into to it, ie would the WRU be happy, and what would be the reaction of the rest of the URC.

Would love to see it though, and yes I can't see any other way to get back to 12 teams unless Wasps and London Irish are parachuted back in with lots of someone else's money.

A good point. You would need the TV revenue to up by 10% per club and I cannot see that being attractive. Not sure any of the championship clubs would be a big enough draw to get that sort of increase either.

I also assume nothing could happen until the current TV deal ends.

The biggest problem we have is that we only have one broadcaster interested and they are getting a bargain deal every time as there appears to be no other option. Compare TNT to the French broadcasters who want to expand the game and have a better product to attract more viewers so they pump in more money. Look at the deal that they have just signed.

TV money is the way to increase revenue as I think most other sources are tapped out. That means that the Premiership needs to start trying to attract other broadcasters now so as there is another deal on the table when the next renewal comes. If they do not, we have nothing left to sell, we have sold all of the matches and so now we having nothing left to offer TNT.

Sadly, the way I see this ending up is with a 2 league URC with maybe 4-6 Premiership clubs being invited to join. The other (maybe worse) alternative is a global fixture list, a short league with reduced numbers on at the same time as Super Rugby and players then contracted off to play internationals for the rest of the year. We are probably losing one club away from the end of the Premiership as a viable tournament and I really cannot see the 10 we have now surviving. For all the calls for relegation, the drop would probably end the relegated club and you are then left with less attractive clubs from the championship trying to fill the gap.

The other probable spanner in the works is the share held by CVC. And nobody - literally, nobody - ever bothers to mention CVC in any discussion of where a solution might come from, which rather speaks to the impact they've made on the game.

I have not seen any positive CVC impact. Thing is,their share is in the Premiership. Premiership collapses, they have a share in nothing and the clubs head off to do their own thing. I know, more complicated than that I am sure but that Is the basis premise of my thoughts.

[GB72]

Excellent post GB72.
As with all things it’s someone being brave enough to make the first step to start asking the important questions. I wonder just how in favour the welsh regions, and their fans are of South African inclusion in the URC, the Scots also for that matter.
In terms of tv figures it used to be that welsh games were streamed on BBC Wales, or S4C, would that be a way of getting terrestrial companies involved.
As you say we are one club failing from the premiership ceasing to be a viable entity, and I know many fans are against the regional or franchise model. The championship clubs do not have the resources to move up, therefore other avenues need to be looked at

I think it is a case of who blinks first and makes a push to protect their own interests. It must surely be only a matter of time before a few clubs start talking to the URC if the premiership does not buck its ideas up. If you think that in this hypothetical situation only a few clubs can make the switch as there is not room for 9-10 clubs then will any club start looking to be first in to ensure their survival.

[johnthegriff]

Bringing 'Welsh clubs into the Premiership could work well I have said this for years. The WRU abandoned many of their clubs by forcing amalgamation into provinces, I have no doubt that had they allowed a little more time wealthy businessmen would have stepped in and old clubs like Neath, Bridgend, Pontypridd, Swansea etc would have been allowed to evolve. Possibly two division Premiership will allow this to happen with genuine promotion and relegation hopes. The Welsh do not seem to gave a problem in the Football League and England v Wales matches at club level always generate extra numbers particularly in Wales. A bigger potential viewing audience should produce better offers from TV companies and sponsors.

[sk 88]

I'd love to know what CVC's exit strategy is.

They normally hold for 5 years, but in sport apparently they aim for 10 years. That puts them looking to leave about 2027 or so.

Float on the stock market? Non starter surely. Selling to a sovereign wealth fund? Possible, there is good prestige & connections in rugby especially for the price. Selling back to the clubs/owner? I could see this if they just want to cut their losses & get some capital back but struggle to see how everyone could afford it to make it a goer.

[Tiglon]

Season ticket holders aren't being specifically being targeted, they're just sending it out to their whole database.

And the "personal" messages from players... clearly not in any way personal.

[Old Hob]

Excellent post GB72.
As with all things it’s someone being brave enough to make the first step to start asking the important questions. I wonder just how in favour the welsh regions, and their fans are of South African inclusion in the URC, the Scots also for that matter.
In terms of tv figures it used to be that welsh games were streamed on BBC Wales, or S4C, would that be a way of getting terrestrial companies involved.
As you say we are one club failing from the premiership ceasing to be a viable entity, and I know many fans are against the regional or franchise model. The championship clubs do not have the resources to move up, therefore other avenues need to be looked at

Welsh rugby still shown on BBC.

[Doghashadhisday]

Why do you say Socios is rubbish?

Because I don't like the pretend "investment" model it's marketed with, or at least was.

I prefer sponsorship deals where the club don't need to provide and FAQ and explanation the week after the deal is launched. By the time Socios arrived at Welford Road, it already had a stinking reputation in football.

The stinking reputation in football you mention was because there were people who thought they could get rich quick by gambling on the price of the fan token or on the Chilliz crypto coin and ended up losing lots of money and then started to cry about it. The Tigers fan token which was available for free to all season ticket holders allows fans to participate in predictions/games to collect reward points which can be redeemed for match tickets and merchandise. Season ticket holders could purchase furhter tokens if they so wished but there was no obligation. Also you dont get bombarded by emails from scammers as is often claimed by people who dont understand how this works.