LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[Tigersunited]

Pretty sure the cap is spread out as an average so clubs can’t front or back load them.

Granted they can sign new deals but won’t be contractually obligated to sign or be offered a increased rate

Without trying to sound rude, do you know this for sure? My friend is very well informed and was pretty adamant about this ‘back loading’ I’m not sure how you could average the cap, surely it’s the amount paid in wages in that season, with clubs choosing to have an advantage one season, disadvantage another.

As I understand it, all players must be on the "standard form contract". This is a template contract that does not appear to give any opportunity to allow for differing salary from year to year - there is simply one space to write the annual salary.

There is a line for bonus though, I'm not sure how much room there is for clubs to be creative with this.

I am sure you are well informed, I was given an example of a total salary over 3 years that was £200k £200k £350k rather than £250k each year. Why would that not be allowed? I know it doesn’t fit any of our hopes that we will get £1.4m extra in players next season but alongside the fact that players will expect a pay rise when the cap increases (and be offered more elsewhere because of that) it will go some way towards explaining why we don’t have room left for significant signings - 1 or 2 projects possibly.

[johnthegriff]

First announcement could be of who has been promoted from the Senior Academy to the full men's squad, of course there could still be a release of two to be announced, then we will.have a better idea of where the gaps are. I agree that apparently we now have only Pollard as a specialist 10 that is a situation that has to be addressed, to me it seems unlikely that Woodward could be the only alternative behind Shillcock. Number 8 could be solved by playing IPhone in his original position, or moving Liebenberg across with Carnduff coming in at 6 or say Martin dropping back to the middle of the back row with Chessum & Henderson in the second row. Of course Beets might be ready now for the Premiership or we may be signing someone, exciting isn't it?

[longlivethecrumbie]

First announcement could be of who has been promoted from the Senior Academy to the full men's squad, of course there could still be a release of two to be announced, then we will.have a better idea of where the gaps are. I agree that apparently we now have only Pollard as a specialist 10 that is a situation that has to be addressed, to me it seems unlikely that Woodward could be the only alternative behind Shillcock. Number 8 could be solved by playing IPhone in his original position, or moving Liebenberg across with Carnduff coming in at 6 or say Martin dropping back to the middle of the back row with Chessum & Henderson in the second row. Of course Beets might be ready now for the Premiership or we may be signing someone, exciting isn't it?

I'm guessing IPhone is Ilione?

[sapajo]

Of course Beets might be ready now for the Premiership or we may be signing someone, exciting isn't it?

I am certainly excited about quality players

[TigerFeetSteve]

First announcement could be of who has been promoted from the Senior Academy to the full men's squad, of course there could still be a release of two to be announced, then we will.have a better idea of where the gaps are. I agree that apparently we now have only Pollard as a specialist 10 that is a situation that has to be addressed, to me it seems unlikely that Woodward could be the only alternative behind Shillcock. Number 8 could be solved by playing IPhone in his original position, or moving Liebenberg across with Carnduff coming in at 6 or say Martin dropping back to the middle of the back row with Chessum & Henderson in the second row. Of course Beets might be ready now for the Premiership or we may be signing someone, exciting isn't it?

I'm guessing IPhone is Ilione?

Always struck me as an Android type of guy

[TigerFeetSteve]

Without trying to sound rude, do you know this for sure? My friend is very well informed and was pretty adamant about this ‘back loading’ I’m not sure how you could average the cap, surely it’s the amount paid in wages in that season, with clubs choosing to have an advantage one season, disadvantage another.

As I understand it, all players must be on the "standard form contract". This is a template contract that does not appear to give any opportunity to allow for differing salary from year to year - there is simply one space to write the annual salary.

There is a line for bonus though, I'm not sure how much room there is for clubs to be creative with this.

I am sure you are well informed, I was given an example of a total salary over 3 years that was £200k £200k £350k rather than £250k each year. Why would that not be allowed? I know it doesn’t fit any of our hopes that we will get £1.4m extra in players next season but alongside the fact that players will expect a pay rise when the cap increases (and be offered more elsewhere because of that) it will go some way towards explaining why we don’t have room left for significant signings - 1 or 2 projects possibly.

I think it's deliberately done to stop signing players with the promise of a 3 year contract where the 3rd year is as marquee to cover the other two (e.g. when Sale or Bristol got Ford and Genge off Tigers) it prevents a contract that's say 200k, 220k then 800k in the 3rd year to cover pay cuts in the first two years...

[RagingBull]

First announcement could be of who has been promoted from the Senior Academy to the full men's squad, of course there could still be a release of two to be announced, then we will.have a better idea of where the gaps are. I agree that apparently we now have only Pollard as a specialist 10 that is a situation that has to be addressed, to me it seems unlikely that Woodward could be the only alternative behind Shillcock. Number 8 could be solved by playing IPhone in his original position, or moving Liebenberg across with Carnduff coming in at 6 or say Martin dropping back to the middle of the back row with Chessum & Henderson in the second row. Of course Beets might be ready now for the Premiership or we may be signing someone, exciting isn't it?

Ilione has always been a flanker first.

[Rugbygramps]

Rob Baxter saying that, with his youngsters coming through, Chiefs do not use their full cap.

Probably not now, it’s going to be in a couple of seasons time when the cost of keeping some of his young stars will rise considerably

[sk 88]

I heard no further ‘significant’ incomings, that’s why I think it’s possible we could move some on to bring in the likes of Moroni.
Also heard from a Pal at Bristol, something I’d not considered, in that contracts need not be linear, he said some of their players had agreed deals over 2/3 years with low salary in season(s) when the cap was smaller and a big uplift in the season when the cap increases. I can’t imagine just one club would have this approach, so could be a factor..

Pretty sure the cap is spread out as an average so clubs can’t front or back load them.

Granted they can sign new deals but won’t be contractually obligated to sign or be offered a increased rate

Without trying to sound rude, do you know this for sure? My friend is very well informed and was pretty adamant about this ‘back loading’ I’m not sure how you could average the cap, surely it’s the amount paid in wages in that season, with clubs choosing to have an advantage one season, disadvantage another.

It's mistaking the marquee player rule (where you can't do this), with the normal cap rules that are more simple and just what you pay your players in that salary cap year.

So, for instance, if you paid a player £100k, £100k, then £1m & made them the marquee in the final season they would go back and add £300k to your salary cap calculations for the previous two seasons.

If you paid a guy £200k, £200k then £400k and declared it in the cap every year then fair dinkum.

[Tiglon]

Without trying to sound rude, do you know this for sure? My friend is very well informed and was pretty adamant about this ‘back loading’ I’m not sure how you could average the cap, surely it’s the amount paid in wages in that season, with clubs choosing to have an advantage one season, disadvantage another.

As I understand it, all players must be on the "standard form contract". This is a template contract that does not appear to give any opportunity to allow for differing salary from year to year - there is simply one space to write the annual salary.

There is a line for bonus though, I'm not sure how much room there is for clubs to be creative with this.

I am sure you are well informed, I was given an example of a total salary over 3 years that was £200k £200k £350k rather than £250k each year. Why would that not be allowed? I know it doesn’t fit any of our hopes that we will get £1.4m extra in players next season but alongside the fact that players will expect a pay rise when the cap increases (and be offered more elsewhere because of that) it will go some way towards explaining why we don’t have room left for significant signings - 1 or 2 projects possibly.

I'm not well informed at all, these are just my conclusions from reading the salary cap rules and the contract template.

I might very well be wrong!

[RagingBull]

Rob Baxter saying that, with his youngsters coming through, Chiefs do not use their full cap.

Probably not now, it’s going to be in a couple of seasons time when the cost of keeping some of his young stars will rise considerably

Well with Bristol, Gloucester, Saints, Falcons already confirming they are not going to be spending the cap that will prob keep some wages down for the younger players.

The big thing will be the likes of Vermeulen and keeping them.

[TigerFeetSteve]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... R4nF8V89HV

This is I believe the standard playing contract for clubs in England to follow.

Note it has a period the player is employed between, it also has a fixed salary, but a variable bonus system, so the salary is the same but you can backload performance bonuses etc, but very hard to do as a complete salary replacement.

[LE18]

Im all for George Martin to become an 8 to replace Wit just strikes me he has all the right skills, or possibly Chessum, but I have said previously Martin at 8 with Chessum and Henderson or whoever at 4 and 5.

[RagingBull]

Martin engine in the scrum is too important for me.

[sam16111986]

Martin engine in the scrum is too important for me.

Agreed. Also having three strong locks and carriers in that engine room position is going to be vital. The whole pack will need to pick up the carrying to compensate for losing Weise.