LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[Rugbygramps]

I didn’t think the landscape has changed that much, the PI super rugby teams will prob make it easier to spot.

From what I’ve seen the French and Japanese clubs haven’t strongly recruited from them either.

It does mean they can stay closer to home while playing a higher grade of rugby

[RagingBull]

The money still won’t be comparable on the whole.

Would rather for example get one of Dura back rowers with a couple of Wells, Carter (when he was here), Cracknell and Rogerson moving on.

Then plug the holes with Carnduff, Ilione and back Josh Manz, Beddall and Thomas to fill up the depth

[Leicestertinytiger]

I’m still not 100% that Rogerson will be here next season. We released the leavers list and then Atkinson left. I just don’t see where he fits in with Cracknell, Carnduff and Illione. I could see him being released if he got a contract offer from somewhere else.

Signings I’m still hoping for.
8 - Morgan Morris, Simmonds etc
13 - Marchant, Moroni etc
10/15 - Isaac Lucas
Attack Coach - Hewat
S&C Coach - Luke Woodhouse to come back maybe or someone from Australia

I know there was chat about signing Eloff, don’t know if a prop is still on the radar. Hopefully the back three will come alive with Watson, Simmons, Bassett all returning from injury.

[RagingBull]

Dave Ewers apparently leaving Ulster
I want him but not sure he would fit in with the balance.

Unless Hanro goes to 8.
6. Ewers, Canrduff, Rogerson, Manz
7. Reffell, Ilione, Cracknell, Beddall
8. Hanro, Hatherell, Beets, Williams

The thing I like about Ewers a lot is he plays like an 8 in attack but his work rate is like a top 6.

[sam16111986]

Dave Ewers apparently leaving Ulster
I want him but not sure he would fit in with the balance.

Unless Hanro goes to 8.
6. Ewers, Canrduff, Rogerson, Manz
7. Reffell, Ilione, Cracknell, Beddall
8. Hanro, Hatherell, Beets, Williams

The thing I like about Ewers a lot is he plays like an 8 in attack but his work rate is like a top 6.

He's taken some flak from the Ulster fans. He's 33 now so perhaps the mobility has dropped off. He was excellent for the Chiefs for a number of years.

[duffers]

Watching Sarries play imagine if we had managed to secure Cinti and González as opposed to Bassett and Rogerson.

I honestly feel that the way other clubs capitalised on the 3 demised clubs players compared to us has been one of if not the biggest factor in the swing in a way.

Prob only 4 clubs didn't really capitalise much and only Sale are doing that well from those 4
Saints - Pearson, Munga, Langdon, Smith, Haffar all reagular 23 players
Sarries - Parton, Willis, Hoskins, Hartley, Cinti, Gonzalez
Bath - Lawrence, Alfie, Hill, Blackett,
Exeter - Feyi-Waboso, Fisilau, Frost,
Quins - Porter, CCS, Joesph
Bristol - BJVR, Oghre, Batley, Heward, Grondona,

You make a great point. I was disappointed we weren't ever really linked to any of the top London Irish players. They had some really exciting prospects. Don't forget the likes of Arundell and Loader who went abroad as well.

Perhaps easy to say now with hindsight but it was a huge mistake if we didn't have the cap space or budget to make competitive offers to their top players. You can't say it came as a big surprise after Worcester and Wasps.

[duffers]

The trick is to make better use of scouting the South hemisphere

Any idea how many scouts we employ?

[AViewFromLe2]

A lot of the recruitment for this season was done and signed off when Steve was at the club. Certainly OHC, Shillcock, FTT and Bassett were all signings that he signed off on. Kata and Rogerson came when McKellar was in situ, so there probably wasn't that much wriggle room to get anyone

I do think we are having to cope with growing pains in our recruitment, that is coming from the very rapid development of our young lads. We won the title in 21/22 with Heyes, Chessum, Martin, Henderson, JvP, Kelly, Steward all being on either Academy contracts - so sub £50k per year, or on Pro contracts on a low level. All of those have subsequently had new deals which will be on substantially more money - possibly £1m more in total has had to be found in the squad to keep them. That is a big transition to manage in not a long period of time. Porter also had two increases as well - he will have gone from not a lot to a decent amount as he became an England international.

The club's priority has been to build the squad around those young players I have mentioned, as they are huge talents that should keep us going for the next 10 years. I actually like the club prioritising this. However the knock-on effect is that we've been a bit hamstrung to target those coming out of the 3 fallen clubs. There's also the fact not every signing works out, which does happen.

I also think losing McGinity has been a loss, i just think he was better at getting unknown bargains & has a better contact book than Wilkes - so the combination of growing pains and not having McGinity are big contributing factors.

The upside, is that we're possibly in a strong position as we have already transitioned the young lads onto Pro contracts now, which should hold us in good stead with the incoming cap limits. Plus we have more talented young players coming through to provide the depth. Other clubs are also going to see issues. Saints are losing Lawes and Ludlum. Sarries are losing Farrell plus the Vunipolas, Quins are losing Andre at 12 so it'll be interesting to see how they cope next season.

[ABClub]

Hatherell was a Borthwick signing too. He was signed before Wuss went boom. When that happened Tigers actually had the chance to bring him in early but opted against.

We've ended up with too many 'mid-quality' players in the pack IMO.

As things stand, Smith is an upgrade at starting LH but the loss of Wiese combined with already lacking carriers throughout the pack means that Chess at 6 is probably part of our best pack.

1.Smith 2.Montoya 3.Cole 4.Martin 5.Henderson 6.Chessum 7.Reffell 8.Hanro
1.Cronin 2.Clare 3.Heyes 4.Hatherell 5.Wells 6.Cracknell 7.Ilione 8.Rogerson
1.Whitcombe 2.FTT/Vanes 3.Hurd 4.L Chessum 5.T Manz 6.Carnduff 7.J Manz 8.Beets

The 1st choice is just enough carrying with a better attacking structure. The second choice is threadbare. Cracknell might be the second best carrier after Hatherell. Even then, Cracknell just hasn't had the same impact since his injury compared to last season.

I'd be happy losing a couple of the solid players there, then using the likes of Carnduff more as second choices, if it enabled the signing of another lock or back row who can get over the gain line.

Ewers would add a bit of what we are missing given his physicality and carrying.

[RagingBull]

Dave Ewers apparently leaving Ulster
I want him but not sure he would fit in with the balance.

Unless Hanro goes to 8.
6. Ewers, Canrduff, Rogerson, Manz
7. Reffell, Ilione, Cracknell, Beddall
8. Hanro, Hatherell, Beets, Williams

The thing I like about Ewers a lot is he plays like an 8 in attack but his work rate is like a top 6.

He's taken some flak from the Ulster fans. He's 33 now so perhaps the mobility has dropped off. He was excellent for the Chiefs for a number of years.

I mean Ulster are awful, so is it him or ulster?
By that logic OHC is awful

[sam16111986]

Dave Ewers apparently leaving Ulster
I want him but not sure he would fit in with the balance.

Unless Hanro goes to 8.
6. Ewers, Canrduff, Rogerson, Manz
7. Reffell, Ilione, Cracknell, Beddall
8. Hanro, Hatherell, Beets, Williams

The thing I like about Ewers a lot is he plays like an 8 in attack but his work rate is like a top 6.

He's taken some flak from the Ulster fans. He's 33 now so perhaps the mobility has dropped off. He was excellent for the Chiefs for a number of years.

I mean Ulster are awful, so is it him or ulster?
By that logic OHC is awful

Well I didn't write him off on the basis of Ulster fans opinions for that reason, it was more an observation. Interesting that they didn't want to take up his second season though.

A one year deal with the option of a second wouldn't be a terrible idea as ABC is right, we do lack carriers though he might impede some of the younger guys who might otherwise break through.

[RunTigerRun]

He's taken some flak from the Ulster fans. He's 33 now so perhaps the mobility has dropped off. He was excellent for the Chiefs for a number of years.

I mean Ulster are awful, so is it him or ulster?
By that logic OHC is awful

Well I didn't write him off on the basis of Ulster fans opinions for that reason, it was more an observation. Interesting that they didn't want to take up his second season though.

A one year deal with the option of a second wouldn't be a terrible idea as ABC is right, we do lack carriers though he might impede some of the younger guys who might otherwise break through.

I’d personally only look to bring in Ewers if Cracknell and Rogerson are off. Otherwise I think we are possibly/probably better backing Carnduff/Ilione and bringing up the likes of J Manz (who looked v good before injury in the PRC last season) and the likes of Beddall, Thomas etc.

Ewers was a great player at Chiefs and I’m sure would add to the group, but personally rather use the young guys and 1 of Cracknell/Rogerson/Ewers if that is the plan.

The only strong option I’d look to bring in if available was a more senior 8 to replace Wiese, but again for me we would have to release one of Rogerson/Cracknell at least to do so.

[Rugbygramps]

I can see Ewers coming in similarly to Mike Williams covering 6 and lock. Wouldn’t want him to restrict Carnduff potential game time

[TigerFeetSteve]

Moroni rumour reached hot sauce level on the rolling maul podcast.

That gives us a really nice balance across our backline, plus he's played right wing a fair bit so reduces risks associated with the likes of Watson being injured.

[Rugbygramps]

IMO Moroni form has dipped since moving to Falcons, understandably, but as they say class is permanent and that ability to cover centre and wing is invaluable