Tigers v Bristol (H) - Premiership - Saturday 27th April 2024 - KO: 15-00

[westwinds31]

Ok, the kick did ultimately lead to the winning score, but I'd be asking how they got into that position on the scoreboard. What about the other 2 tries ? They should never have been in a position to win that game at that point, so letting a prop in for 2 tries before that would be concerning me more. It should never have come down to what it did.

[Tiglon]

Ok, the kick did ultimately lead to the winning score, but I'd be asking how they got into that position on the scoreboard. What about the other 2 tries ? They should never have been in a position to win that game at that point, so letting a prop in for 2 tries before that would be concerning me more. It should never have come down to what it did.

I'm sure the coaches and players will be looking at it in that level of detail, but most people prefer a much simpler explanation to focus their anger on.

When Max Lahiff looks like a good player, even in the scrum(!), you know you've got more wrong than one kick.

[sapajo]

I often watch games for the first time a day or two after - and often find the same thing. People get caught up in the emotion watching it live I think - rather than dispassionately in the cold light of day.

This is very true and I am certainly guilty of this.

I still believe though that the officiating was very poor. There were certainly IMHO a lot more than two instances they got wrong. I think the worst thing is that Carley just lost control of the game very early, with lots of little things players were getting away with for the rest of the game.

With Whitley... everybody makes mistakes. He unfortunately keeps making this very mistake, and IMHO should not be trusted to finish a tight game again. IMHO it is a far better tactic to "put the ball up your jumper." This obviously needs perfectioning to not give away penalties etc, but it is far better than giving the ball back to a team known for their excellent open field play, especially with tiring bodies.

But were we not trying to win and get a try BP, not close the game out?
[/quoete]

I thought we were primarily trying to win the match and not risk playing for an LBP by self inflicting defeat. I would have been ecstatic for 4 points by not throwing them away with 2 mins to go.

[LE18]

I think kicking for touch would have been the best option, as setting up the lineout would have run around 30 secs off the clock and Bristol attacking from their 22 off first phase was a much greater challenge than from open play.
2.10 is a long time to pick and go with the risk of sealing off and conceding 40m from the resulting penalty. Yes, we might have drawn a penalty from Bristol but it’s all ifs and buts at the end of the day. (Sorry. I seem to have burst into cliches!)

Didn't they score that try starting from pretty much their 22?

Yes they did - from open play. And that’s the key - set piece defence at that point would have been many times better than open play fragmented defence

Would it have been better if Steward was not the player chasing the kick and been back in his defensive FB position.? Just playing Devil's Advocate.

[Tigris]

This is very true and I am certainly guilty of this.

I still believe though that the officiating was very poor. There were certainly IMHO a lot more than two instances they got wrong. I think the worst thing is that Carley just lost control of the game very early, with lots of little things players were getting away with for the rest of the game.

With Whitley... everybody makes mistakes. He unfortunately keeps making this very mistake, and IMHO should not be trusted to finish a tight game again. IMHO it is a far better tactic to "put the ball up your jumper." This obviously needs perfectioning to not give away penalties etc, but it is far better than giving the ball back to a team known for their excellent open field play, especially with tiring bodies.

But were we not trying to win and get a try BP, not close the game out?
[/quoete]

I thought we were primarily trying to win the match and not risk playing for an LBP by self inflicting defeat. I would have been ecstatic for 4 points by not throwing them away with 2 mins to go.

Its a funny one - I would have bitten your arm off to get a win as the last 10mins unfolded. To keep them scoreless for so much of the game and then for the wheels to come off so spectacularly was hard to take. But had we shut up shop and squeaked a win, I suspect the post mortem would have lamented our lack of awareness for not pushing to get another try. All moot now anyway, just didn't think the box kick was quite the lunatic option that it seems to have been painted as.

[WhitecapTiger]

As ever, many people are fixating on the last 10 (or even last 2) minutes.

Today the last 10, or 2, are so standout they deserve the focus IMO.

To compare to football, if a goalkeeper makes 5 fines saves and keeps a team in the game but drops a monumental clanger in the last minute and they lose 1-0 no-one remembers the earlier saves - even though without them the game was long gone - they may not be given due credit until long after the dust has settled. Such is the nature of sport.

It could be said that the earlier possession and pressure we had that wasn’t fully exploited (maybe) was wasted possession and pressure. In the long run there are slight glimmers of hope popping through that some things can come together and be better in future but in the here and now…....

Agreed, we deal in results, not performances. But let’s not overreact. People have been asking for progress, and this represented progress for me. Fitness is an easy fix, so let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. Let’s build on this.

Yazz time, the only way is up!

[fentiger]

When Max Lahiff looks like a good player, even in the scrum(!), you know you've got more wrong than one kick.

This

[tripeandonions]

Seeing the bigger picture and applying a bit of considered thought produces the conclusion that having scored try no 3, the pursuit of no 4 became the objective, and along with that came the increasing risk of losing the game. In the end, that turned into more of a last-ditch gamble, like the "Hail Mary" pass is in the NFL, such was the priority given to getting 5 points with the possible sacrifice of 4 being deemed a worthwhile quest, no matter how improbable that was.
But the real issue is the failure to convert the efforts and superiority over the first 60 minutes into sufficient points. To this deficiency, add the lack of any player capable of coming onto the field and changing the whole dynamics, who can create some chaos and raise the atmosphere both on and off the field.
We have no Castrogiovanni, no Burns, no Nadolo, no x-factor.
Bristol, on the other hand, have one of these and maybe more. His name's Harry Thacker. He used to play for us.

[sapajo]

Seeing the bigger picture and applying a bit of considered thought produces the conclusion that having scored try no 3, the pursuit of no 4 became the objective, and along with that came the increasing risk of losing the game. In the end, that turned into more of a last-ditch gamble, like the "Hail Mary" pass is in the NFL, such was the priority given to getting 5 points with the possible sacrifice of 4 being deemed a worthwhile quest, no matter how improbable that was.
But the real issue is the failure to convert the efforts and superiority over the first 60 minutes into sufficient points. To this deficiency, add the lack of any player capable of coming onto the field and changing the whole dynamics, who can create some chaos and raise the atmosphere both on and off the field.
We have no Castrogiovanni, no Burns, no Nadolo, no x-factor.
Bristol, on the other hand, have one of these and maybe more. His name's Har
ry Thacker. He used to play for us.

No for me, Mckellar would have bit your hand off for 4 points and not gambling them away for 1 LBP. It makes zero sense with 2 mins to go. Both now and at the time.

[mol2]

Perhaps 8th place is a more realistic appraisal of where our performances deserve.

We did OK during the World Cup but since then we have slowly gone backwards, in spite of the return of Cole, Martin, Montoja, Kata, Pollard and Wiese.
Even with the 6N it's surely long enough for the team to gel.

Why hasn't it?
Scrum is weak on the loose head side.
And frankly our backs have little pace and offer minimal running threat. Injuries are relevant but not bringing in a backs/attack coach cannot be underestimated.
Fitness. We fade badly in the last quarter. Arguably we have also reverted to overly long warm ups and burn up to much before the game.

[RagingBull]

Disagree feel it’s more since the 6N’s break we have gone backwards

[Tiglon]

Yep, we lost 3 out of 4 while half the team was away at the world cup, then won 6 out of 8 in the prem with wins against all the teams that are getting the plaudits - Sarries, Bath and Saints.

Back to 3 losses out of 4 since the 6N.

[Old Hob]

Perhaps 8th place is a more realistic appraisal of where our performances deserve.

We did OK during the World Cup but since then we have slowly gone backwards, in spite of the return of Cole, Martin, Montoja, Kata, Pollard and Wiese.
Even with the 6N it's surely long enough for the team to gel.

Why hasn't it?
Scrum is weak on the loose head side.
And frankly our backs have little pace and offer minimal running threat. Injuries are relevant but not bringing in a backs/attack coach cannot be underestimated.
Fitness. We fade badly in the last quarter. Arguably we have also reverted to overly long warm ups and burn up to much before the game.

I agree, it is difficult to overestimate how damaging the lack of an attack coach has been. On the other hand, have we had a settled back line or pack for a continuous run of games? First 5 games 10 first team players absent, only 13 games left; resting the internationals; injuries - and now just 2 games left.