Tigers v Saints (A) - Premiership - Saturday 20th April 2024 - KO: 15-05

[westwinds31]

I may have missed the posters who (I probably missed it when skipping the bickering) congratulated Northampton not only on the win and the manner in which they play the game, but also that they have built a winning team without any big name signings and by using an ex-player as head coach.
They are showing it can be done organically and within budget, it is galling to see but also a pleasure that they are showing what can be done with the right vision and organisation.
Well done to Northampton (spits)

Dowson inherited the ground work started by Boyd and was groomed as his successor as part of a long term vision for the future of their club. They have made some excellent coaching appointments with Vesty to the fore. The style of rugby that Saints now play so well was in clunky evidence under Boyd and is now finely tuned. Their recruitment of the likes of top quality young players like Smith and Pearson have been exellent and their academy has produced some excellent players like Langdon. Sleightholme. Freeman. Henley. Mitchell and Moon. That said they have brought in players from outside like Augustus and Grundahl.

Congrats to them for setting out a clear vision as to the style of rugby they want to play and planning then recruiting coaches and players who can realise their vision and are now finally reaping the seeds Boyd sewed with a young talented settled squad and coaches

Yes good post. It’s obviously harder to implement than it looks, otherwise we’d all be doing it. Physical forwards who can use footwork to get through contact but also have the required skills and nous to make the right decision….when to off load etc, then a 9 who can get the ball away quickly, whilst posing a significant threat himself. Then a 10 who can make the right decisions and execute, whilst being able to see the defensive picture and attack it where it’s at its weakest. They’ve all got basic skills, know what the other is going to do and have a game plan that everyone’s bought into. Simple !!

[mol2]

I still struggle with why we play our best full back on the wing and an international wing in the centre....

[Pellsey]

I still struggle with why we play our best full back on the wing and an international wing in the centre....

Kata has mostly played in the centre and is IMHO a better centre than a wing. I think he only plays on the wing for Tonga as they have other options in the centre.

As for Steward, I tend to agree!

[OakhamTiger32]

I still struggle with why we play our best full back on the wing and an international wing in the centre....

Kata has mostly played in the centre and is IMHO a better centre than a wing. I think he only plays on the wing for Tonga as they have other options in the centre.

As for Steward, I tend to agree!

Occupied positions by Solomone on start team :
Center : 33 times ( Inside Centre 47%, Outside Centre 8% )
Winger : 27 times ( Right Wing 32%, Left Wing 13% )

Most of his Centre starts as you say Pellsey have been at club level although Brumbies did play him on the wing when he was with them. He is a very talented and exciting player there is no question but he does have a habit of flying out of the line and leaving big holes which against teams like Saints, Bristol etc will be exploited. I would give him a run on the wing (which were it not for his suspension and given our lack of fit wingers might have been this weekend) to see how he fits. If next season we go with 12. Kelly 13. Perese he could be an option out wide

[Tiglon]

I imagine Kata played wing at Brumbies because he'd just converted from rugby league, and (back then particularly) it was a less technical position.

Kata's kicking was poor for Tonga, and that is really 90% of what wingers are asked to do these days. I think he played there for Tonga simply because they have very few players and needs must.

I don't see him playing winger other than in an emergency.

As for Steward playing wing, what's the difference to full back? He still spends all his time catching kicks, kicking and chasing. Since the 50/22 law, every team pretty much has two full backs.

[Wellscity]

We have a coach who has partially inherited a team of players who in their own right are quality.
He is building his own team for next season.
Quite right to forget about a clubs DNA - that worked back then when Rugby was a different beast.

We need to change and that has been the problem for as number of seasons.

[Not a jock]

As others have alluded to, the club's DNA has altered over the years. I was at the JP Cup final in 1978 and can still remember the attritional Glaws forwards deciding the match. That pack contained such softies as Burton and Fidler. Tigers won the next three finals with their stellar backline that formed the nucleus of the 1980 England Grand Slam team.

Others may disgree but it seems Tigers became a forwards' orientated team with the likes of Richards coming to the fore. Perhaps that was what Matt O'Connor was trying to reverse.

[Cagey Tiger]

If Saints and Bath (who could not win a match last season) . It simply begs the question why can't we?

Nothing to say that we can't. How long has van Graan been at Bath, Dowson & Vesty at Saints, and McKellar at Tigers? And Bath and Saints have only really been successful this season.

[Big Dai]

As others have alluded to, the club's DNA has altered over the years. I was at the JP Cup final in 1978 and can still remember the attritional Glaws forwards deciding the match. That pack contained such softies as Burton and Fidler. Tigers won the next three finals with their stellar backline that formed the nucleus of the 1980 England Grand Slam team.

Others may disgree but it seems Tigers became a forwards' orientated team with the likes of Richards coming to the fore. Perhaps that was what Matt O'Connor was trying to reverse.

I remember our "Stellar" backline of recent times.

Youngs Ford Holmes Tamuua Tuilagi May Vianu.

A flop without the forwards to get them the ball.

[sapajo]

If Saints and Bath (who could not win a match last season) . It simply begs the question why can't we?

Nothing to say that we can't. How long has van Graan been at Bath, Dowson & Vesty at Saints, and McKellar at Tigers? And Bath and Saints have only really been successful this season.

Van Graan joined Bath in 2022 and Dowson joined Saints as assistant coach under Boyd in 2017 and Vesty in 2018. We all know Mckellar joined Tigers in 2023. Love to know who is the longest serving Tigers coach in the last 6 years and how long they lasted??

[Tiglon]

If Saints and Bath (who could not win a match last season) . It simply begs the question why can't we?

Nothing to say that we can't. How long has van Graan been at Bath, Dowson & Vesty at Saints, and McKellar at Tigers? And Bath and Saints have only really been successful this season.

Van Graan joined Bath in 2022 and Dowson joined Saints as assistant coach under Boyd in 2017 and Vesty in 2018. We all know Mckellar joined Tigers in 2023. Love to know who is the longest serving Tigers coach in the last 6 years and how long they lasted??

Saints have been building for a long time, I'll be interested to see how they do next year without Ludlum and Lawes.

Bath are doing well and I would expect us to be doing just as well by this point next year, right in the mix for the playoffs. That said, it's still very possible that they don't make the playoffs, and they've only won one more match than Tigers - so what have they actually achieved so far?

[AngusMcCoatup]

As others have alluded to, the club's DNA has altered over the years. I was at the JP Cup final in 1978 and can still remember the attritional Glaws forwards deciding the match. That pack contained such softies as Burton and Fidler. Tigers won the next three finals with their stellar backline that formed the nucleus of the 1980 England Grand Slam team.

Others may disgree but it seems Tigers became a forwards' orientated team with the likes of Richards coming to the fore. Perhaps that was what Matt O'Connor was trying to reverse.

I remember our "Stellar" backline of recent times.

Youngs Ford Holmes Tamuua Tuilagi May Vianu.

A flop without the forwards to get them the ball.

Several years ago Tigers were always after silverwear and the trophy cabinet was full, these days the only thing we seem to collect are red and yellow cards which do not feature in the trophy cabinet but allow the opposition a great advantage. The results this season show that with match suspensions and long term injuries we need a mental attitude change.
Should we fine offending players? It is clear we are not paying any performance bonuses!
I recall when Wingers really were Flying & Scoring Wingers and not Windgers. Yes Holmes, Potter, May, Thompstone and the Tuilagis but now we have OHC who excelled at Irish but has slowed and appears disinterested, Simmonds a long stayer but often injured or on loan and Watson who has yet to perform this season, have cobwebs set in? etc.....
This is Tigers and not a pre-retirement rest home. Let us get Freddie back at 15.
It is the Club that needs the "Movers and Shakers " event not the faithful supporters.

[sapajo]

Nothing to say that we can't. How long has van Graan been at Bath, Dowson & Vesty at Saints, and McKellar at Tigers? And Bath and Saints have only really been successful this season.

Van Graan joined Bath in 2022 and Dowson joined Saints as assistant coach under Boyd in 2017 and Vesty in 2018. We all know Mckellar joined Tigers in 2023. Love to know who is the longest serving Tigers coach in the last 6 years and how long they lasted??

Saints have been building for a long time, I'll be interested to see how they do next year without Ludlum and Lawes.

Bath are doing well and I would expect us to be doing just as well by this point next year, right in the mix for the playoffs. That said, it's still very possible that they don't make the playoffs, and they've only won one more match than Tigers - so what have they actually achieved so far?

We hall have to wait to the end of the season to judge that.

[Old Hob]

I don't think O H-C is uninterested (he's certainly not disinterested) yet something seems to have happened. Handre has not hit his straps, the back line seems to lack understanding and communication. Perhaps this is all down to a lack of an experienced and competent attack coach, perhaps the lack of a fitness coach, or perhaps the chemistry of the team just doesn't work. The forwards, on the other hand seem to be improving and seem more integrated.
Whatever the reason, the team is far less than the sum of its parts.
Next season is, for me, the real trial. If there are no major improvements then perhaps we are destined to be a mid-table team or worse.

[Cagey Tiger]

Van Graan joined Bath in 2022 and Dowson joined Saints as assistant coach under Boyd in 2017 and Vesty in 2018. We all know Mckellar joined Tigers in 2023. Love to know who is the longest serving Tigers coach in the last 6 years and how long they lasted??

Saints have been building for a long time, I'll be interested to see how they do next year without Ludlum and Lawes.

Bath are doing well and I would expect us to be doing just as well by this point next year, right in the mix for the playoffs. That said, it's still very possible that they don't make the playoffs, and they've only won one more match than Tigers - so what have they actually achieved so far?

We hall have to wait to the end of the season to judge that.

So you're prepared to wait to the end of the season to judge Bath and Saints. Any chance of giving Tigers and DMK until the end of at least next season or the season after to make it a level playing field?