Tigers v Saints (A) - Premiership - Saturday 20th April 2024 - KO: 15-05

[RagingBull]

[quote=Tigersunited post_id=881794 time=1713642190 user_id=9987]

Given the disparity in available players the result didn't surprise me. I'm happy to give McKellar time, I think the whole attack coach fiasco is a poor reflection on the club management, feels like he's been dealt a bum hand!

What a massive excuse that is - do you really think he wasn’t given the option of an experienced Attack coach - he was and chose Matt Smith. We are going no where but backwards under DM - I fear for next season if he is in charge.
[/quote]

It really doesn't seem that simple though

[RagingBull]

Not the Head Coach’s fault…..mmmmm….. not sure I agree.

Whatever the issues are, and let’s be honest, there are quite a few, eg no attack coach, poor player engagement, poor levels of fitness, no nous and guile with very predictable play, lack of discipline, to name just a few. The responsibility for those things ultimately sits with the senior leadership, ie the Head Coach.

Apart from the lack of attack coach aren't these the same issues we had with the last Australian coach we had?

Just asking.

It was although are you suggesting that Cockers last years with cockers and Mauger much better?

Unless we are rewriting history

[westwinds31]

OHC’s lack of confidence has come as a direct result of the attack coach debacle. Pollard isn’t a flair 10, anyone who’s seen the Boks play will know that. Ok, his kicking out of hand has been below par. Without the red card, who knows what the score would have been, but we were well in that game up to that point. Better teams than us will lose to Saints. It doesn’t make it better but we’re nowhere near them at the moment, in attack.

[Tigersunited]

Given the disparity in available players the result didn't surprise me. I'm happy to give McKellar time, I think the whole attack coach fiasco is a poor reflection on the club management, feels like he's been dealt a bum hand!

What a massive excuse that is - do you really think he wasn’t given the option of an experienced Attack coach - he was and chose Matt Smith. We are going no where but backwards under DM - I fear for next season if he is in charge.

And you know that how?

An excellent contact as it goes, DM also alluded to it, until it stopped working and he threw Matt under the bus.

[Tigersunited]

[quote=Tigersunited post_id=881794 time=1713642190 user_id=9987]

Given the disparity in available players the result didn't surprise me. I'm happy to give McKellar time, I think the whole attack coach fiasco is a poor reflection on the club management, feels like he's been dealt a bum hand!

What a massive excuse that is - do you really think he wasn’t given the option of an experienced Attack coach - he was and chose Matt Smith. We are going no where but backwards under DM - I fear for next season if he is in charge.

It really doesn't seem that simple though
[/quote]

Why doesn’t?

[Tigersunited]

This is hilarious ! We lose against the best team in the league who have torn a lot of teams apart and suddenly we’re unfit, we’ve given up and it’s all McKellar’s fault. OHC is lazy now and a coward, Pollard is useless. Absolute tosh !

The buck stops with the HC - we are poor and 7/8th for a reason.

[RagingBull]

[quote=Tigersunited post_id=881794 time=1713642190 user_id=9987]

Given the disparity in available players the result didn't surprise me. I'm happy to give McKellar time, I think the whole attack coach fiasco is a poor reflection on the club management, feels like he's been dealt a bum hand!

What a massive excuse that is - do you really think he wasn’t given the option of an experienced Attack coach - he was and chose Matt Smith. We are going no where but backwards under DM - I fear for next season if he is in charge.

It really doesn't seem that simple though

Why doesn’t?
[/quote]

You got the whole debacle with the RFU and Dickens by which time any decent backs coach will require buying out of contract which wasn't going to happen.
Don't believe for one minute that Smith was ever viewed as anything but short term.

He wasn't a choice he was just about

[ABClub]

Steward having 15 on his back today would've changed nothing in all reality. If you think otherwise then you need to double check your glasses.
He was defending 15 most of the game anyway.
Saints didn't put up many contestable high balls, and that's his bread and butter.

That's increasingly been the case. Teams have adjusted to how good he is in the air by kicking to contest in his defensive zones fars less. That's a very useful asset in itself. Being able to shift a teams kicking plan is an excellent skill to have. The issue is twofold. Firstly, not all teams kick to contest that much anyway. Secondly, if teams are forced to shift their kicking plans, then there needs to be a way of staying in the game elsewhere.

For Freddie the most obviously areas to do that are his ability to get over the gain line on crash ball and being able to contest attacking kicks as a chaser rather than defending kicks as a receiver.

Crash ball seems far better suited from centre than fullback or wing. Chasing attacking kicks can be done from centre rather than fullback or wing. Arguably better as it doesn't disrupt the backfield as much when setting for a returning kick.

Given where the season now is, I really can't see a better time to give it a go.

[Tigersunited]

[quote=Tigersunited post_id=881794 time=1713642190 user_id=9987]


What a massive excuse that is - do you really think he wasn’t given the option of an experienced Attack coach - he was and chose Matt Smith. We are going no where but backwards under DM - I fear for next season if he is in charge.

It really doesn't seem that simple though

Why doesn’t?

You got the whole debacle with the RFU and Dickens by which time any decent backs coach will require buying out of contract which wasn't going to happen.
Don't believe for one minute that Smith was ever viewed as anything but short term.

He wasn't a choice he was just about
[/quote]

Agree with that - still in a very poor position.

[sam16111986]

[quote=Tigersunited post_id=881794 time=1713642190 user_id=9987]


What a massive excuse that is - do you really think he wasn’t given the option of an experienced Attack coach - he was and chose Matt Smith. We are going no where but backwards under DM - I fear for next season if he is in charge.

It really doesn't seem that simple though

Why doesn’t?

You got the whole debacle with the RFU and Dickens by which time any decent backs coach will require buying out of contract which wasn't going to happen.
Don't believe for one minute that Smith was ever viewed as anything but short term.

He wasn't a choice he was just about
[/quote]

Effectively replacing someone having placed them on gardening leave would have led to a case of constructive dismissal. Tigers could have been on the end of a lawsuit and owing thousands in compensation. Sadly it's not as simple as just hiring a replacement whilst Dickens is still under contract.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Has it ever been established who wanted/appointed Dickens, the club or McKellar?

I wonder where we would be if SB hadn't left, the evidence of the first half of last season suggested not much better than where we are now.

How much preseason with "all" the players does a HC actually get?

A lot of what we see is just the lack of basic rugby skills of a lot of English Players.

[Ian Cant]

Was at Franklins and in the first half their fans were worried.
I was worried for us as the amount of defending we were having to do had been incessant and all those Saints’ players are incredibly strong and fit.
Like in other games we butchered two tries which if scored would have seen Saints have to rethink their game.

What Saints do through Vesty is never stop believing in their basic skills: run hard, fast lines ( both backs and forwards), use good passing effectively and have clinical finishing.
Bristol next week will be another huge test against a side that’s gone back to it attacking game similar to Saints.
Well done Carnduff as he was a shining example to his more experienced team mates.
Reffell will be out for a while as he failed his HIA.

[RagingBull]

Has it ever been established who wanted/appointed Dickens, the club or McKellar?

I wonder where we would be if SB hadn't left, the evidence of the first half of last season suggested not much better than where we are now.

How much preseason with "all" the players does a HC actually get?

A lot of what we see is just the lack of basic rugby skills of a lot of English Players.

I could see Dickens being a McKellar signing TBH
He ticked alot of boxes we where missing
9 Years coaching in the prem with Saints
Won the Premiership and European Challenge cup with Saints
Has been a Academy, Defence, Attack and Head Coach
Won the U20's 6N's for the first time in 4 years

Depends Borthwick 1st and 2nd season he had basically a full squad during the preseason
In the season we won the league it was a Lions year and we had zero lions selected and only Montoya, Wiese and MVS

In the opening game v Exeter in the 2021/22 season we had a team of
1. Genge, 2. Dolly, 3. Cole, 4. Green, 5. Wells, 6. Martin, 7. Reffell, 8. Hanro
9. Youngs, 10. Ford, 11. Nadolo, 12. Kelly, 13. Scott, 14. Potter, 15. Steward

16. TCD, 17. Van Wyk, 18. Leatigaga, 19. Snyman, 20. Chessum, 21. JVP, 22. Burns, 23. Port

adding Montoya, Wiese and MVS later we didn't really pick up many extra injuries till later on in the season

I geuinely feel Borthwick benefitted from us not having many international away much like I feel Saints have this season. Kept that core group for the whole off season

[CrumblingTerrace]

Leicester Tigers fought bravely against Saint-de-Northants but ultimately lost the East Midlands derby. Dan McKellar's side kept pace with their star-studded hosts until halftime, but Phillipe Dowson called upon an embarrassment of riches from the bench and watched his side pull away.

[filfinger]

It's been a difficult season for our coaching team. We lost not only a pre season to the world cup but then a large number of the team over the first 5 games in a short season. Players then came back from the world cup and had to be integrated without a pre season. We have also got and had a number of injuries. I think we will see whether our new coaches are up to it next season. This seasons sadly a write off.