LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[Goshengareth]

“Walters definitely, Sinfield, really don’t think so, he has been pushed aside at England. SB ran everything, as a great leader does….”

No great leader runs everything and there has been a distinct improvement in England performance as soon as SB has increased the capability of his coaching team with Felix Jones and Strawbridge.

[Pellsey]

Written by Fissler though...

If it were to happen, then Marchant would not be a bad replacement...

To me it seems like Marchant and Perese are similar players, both 13s?

With only 3 senior centres in the squad, it would be irresponsible to let Kelly go, even for a fee.

Porter is also a 13, so Marchant would be a direct replacement. Kelly is a good 12 though, so I know what you mean.

[Rugbygramps]

Plus Borthwick had a free pass season to start with!

I get fans frustration I just don’t understand the mind set. If Mckellar were to go what happens next season if his replacement fails in the mind of fans, do we get rid of them too, then rinse and repeat until we luck on a successful one.
It is no coincidence that Exeter and Sarries have long standing head coaches. Even at Saints Dowson and Vesty have had a few seasons now initially learning their trade under Boyd who still consults from afar

I don’t expect anyone to understand my mindset, I don’t have confidence in him, at the moment - I think we could well end up outside the top 6, which with our squad, would be huge underachievement, if we make top 4 I’ll gladly eat my words.
I would change any coach that fails and struggle to get my head around keeping someone just because a potential replacement my not succeed.

Just so I understand you would get rid of Mckellar and then if his replacement wasn’t successful you’d get rid of him too. That will lead to a consistency of approach wouldn’t it

That really is the football mentality

[TigerFeetSteve]

This is roughly depth chart as I'm expecting it next season brackets mean they cover here but primarily play elsewhere.

LH: Smith, Cronin, Whitcombe, Van Der Flier
HK: Montoya, Clare, Vanes, Theobald-Thomas
TH: Heyes, Cole, Hurd, New Signing (probably, possibly also cover LH also based on rumours)
LK: Martin, Wells, New Signing (likely) or T.Manz (unlikely)
LK: O.Chessum, Henderson, L.Chessum, (Carnduff)
BF: Liebenberg, Rogerson, Carnduff
OF: Reffell, Illione, Cracknell
N8: Hatherall, Beets, (Cracknell/Rogerson), New Signing (probably just over 50:50 we make a signing here)


SH: JvP, Youngs, Whiteley, Allan
FH: Pollard, (Shillcock), Wilkinson, Meredith
LW: OHC, Bassett, Simmons
IC: Kelly, Kata, Woodward
OC: Perese, (Kelly), New Signing (almost definitely
RW: Watson, (Steward), (Bassett), (Simmons), (Brown)
FB: Steward, Shillcock, (Watson), Brown



So in order of likelihood I think these are the signings to come:

Outside Centre - bonus if they play wing (especially right wing)
Tighthead prop - with the possibility they can cover LH too
Lock - big grunt style over Lineout type
No.8 - a no.8 who possibly covers 7, or at least is a real jackle threat from 8 for when Reffell isn't playing

[longlivethecrumbie]

This is roughly depth chart as I'm expecting it next season brackets mean they cover here but primarily play elsewhere.

LH: Smith, Cronin, Whitcombe, Van Der Flier
HK: Montoya, Clare, Vanes, Theobald-Thomas
TH: Heyes, Cole, Hurd, New Signing (probably, possibly also cover LH also based on rumours)
LK: Martin, Wells, New Signing (likely) or T.Manz (unlikely)
LK: O.Chessum, Henderson, L.Chessum, (Carnduff)
BF: Liebenberg, Rogerson, Carnduff
OF: Reffell, Illione, Cracknell
N8: Hatherall, Beets, (Cracknell/Rogerson), New Signing (probably just over 50:50 we make a signing here)


SH: JvP, Youngs, Whiteley, Allan
FH: Pollard, (Shillcock), Wilkinson, Meredith
LW: OHC, Bassett, Simmons
IC: Kelly, Kata, Woodward
OC: Perese, (Kelly), New Signing (almost definitely
RW: Watson, (Steward), (Bassett), (Simmons), (Brown)
FB: Steward, Shillcock, (Watson), Brown



So in order of likelihood I think these are the signings to come:

Outside Centre - bonus if they play wing (especially right wing)
Tighthead prop - with the possibility they can cover LH too
Lock - big grunt style over Lineout type
No.8 - a no.8 who possibly covers 7, or at least is a real jackle threat from 8 for when Reffell isn't playing

Any rumours, on anyone who will fill those slots, Steve?

[TigerFeetSteve]

This is roughly depth chart as I'm expecting it next season brackets mean they cover here but primarily play elsewhere.

LH: Smith, Cronin, Whitcombe, Van Der Flier
HK: Montoya, Clare, Vanes, Theobald-Thomas
TH: Heyes, Cole, Hurd, New Signing (probably, possibly also cover LH also based on rumours)
LK: Martin, Wells, New Signing (likely) or T.Manz (unlikely)
LK: O.Chessum, Henderson, L.Chessum, (Carnduff)
BF: Liebenberg, Rogerson, Carnduff
OF: Reffell, Illione, Cracknell
N8: Hatherall, Beets, (Cracknell/Rogerson), New Signing (probably just over 50:50 we make a signing here)


SH: JvP, Youngs, Whiteley, Allan
FH: Pollard, (Shillcock), Wilkinson, Meredith
LW: OHC, Bassett, Simmons
IC: Kelly, Kata, Woodward
OC: Perese, (Kelly), New Signing (almost definitely
RW: Watson, (Steward), (Bassett), (Simmons), (Brown)
FB: Steward, Shillcock, (Watson), Brown



So in order of likelihood I think these are the signings to come:

Outside Centre - bonus if they play wing (especially right wing)
Tighthead prop - with the possibility they can cover LH too
Lock - big grunt style over Lineout type
No.8 - a no.8 who possibly covers 7, or at least is a real jackle threat from 8 for when Reffell isn't playing

Any rumours, on anyone who will fill those slots, Steve?

OC - not sure, one chap on here said Marchant has had a chat with the club but not heard that myself (though he is definitely looking at options to come back to the UK, so has probably had a chat with all clubs looking at centres so it would make sense)

TH prop - club has had chats with both De Bruin and Eloff so we're looking into the ability to cover both sides as per Richardson who is leaving.

Lock - not heard any rumours, but even though some were primarily WC cover, when we have through this season lost, Williams, Carter & Carmichael, you'd think at least one is to come, but given it may be a squad filler it may not be a big name.

No.8. - again not heard too many rumours, only one is Elliott from the Rolling maul confirmed we have spoken to Sam Simmonds.

In all nothing to point to the fact which way we're going on anyone, but we're clearly looking at these positions.

[longlivethecrumbie]

This is roughly depth chart as I'm expecting it next season brackets mean they cover here but primarily play elsewhere.

LH: Smith, Cronin, Whitcombe, Van Der Flier
HK: Montoya, Clare, Vanes, Theobald-Thomas
TH: Heyes, Cole, Hurd, New Signing (probably, possibly also cover LH also based on rumours)
LK: Martin, Wells, New Signing (likely) or T.Manz (unlikely)
LK: O.Chessum, Henderson, L.Chessum, (Carnduff)
BF: Liebenberg, Rogerson, Carnduff
OF: Reffell, Illione, Cracknell
N8: Hatherall, Beets, (Cracknell/Rogerson), New Signing (probably just over 50:50 we make a signing here)


SH: JvP, Youngs, Whiteley, Allan
FH: Pollard, (Shillcock), Wilkinson, Meredith
LW: OHC, Bassett, Simmons
IC: Kelly, Kata, Woodward
OC: Perese, (Kelly), New Signing (almost definitely
RW: Watson, (Steward), (Bassett), (Simmons), (Brown)
FB: Steward, Shillcock, (Watson), Brown



So in order of likelihood I think these are the signings to come:

Outside Centre - bonus if they play wing (especially right wing)
Tighthead prop - with the possibility they can cover LH too
Lock - big grunt style over Lineout type
No.8 - a no.8 who possibly covers 7, or at least is a real jackle threat from 8 for when Reffell isn't playing

Any rumours, on anyone who will fill those slots, Steve?

OC - not sure, one chap on here said Marchant has had a chat with the club but not heard that myself (though he is definitely looking at options to come back to the UK, so has probably had a chat with all clubs looking at centres so it would make sense)

TH prop - club has had chats with both De Bruin and Eloff so we're looking into the ability to cover both sides as per Richardson who is leaving.

Lock - not heard any rumours, but even though some were primarily WC cover, when we have through this season lost, Williams, Carter & Carmichael, you'd think at least one is to come, but given it may be a squad filler it may not be a big name.

No.8. - again not heard too many rumours, only one is Elliott from the Rolling maul confirmed we have spoken to Sam Simmonds.

In all nothing to point to the fact which way we're going on anyone, but we're clearly looking at these positions.

Thanks Steve. I tend to agree - I can't see them looking to strengthen any other area unless the player is excellent in one position but covers another, naturally, very well.

[albany]

Nic Dolly signs for Western Force.

[OakhamTiger32]

This is roughly depth chart as I'm expecting it next season brackets mean they cover here but primarily play elsewhere.

LH: Smith, Cronin, Whitcombe, Van Der Flier
HK: Montoya, Clare, Vanes, Theobald-Thomas
TH: Heyes, Cole, Hurd, New Signing (probably, possibly also cover LH also based on rumours)
LK: Martin, Wells, New Signing (likely) or T.Manz (unlikely)
LK: O.Chessum, Henderson, L.Chessum, (Carnduff)
BF: Liebenberg, Rogerson, Carnduff
OF: Reffell, Illione, Cracknell
N8: Hatherall, Beets, (Cracknell/Rogerson), New Signing (probably just over 50:50 we make a signing here)


SH: JvP, Youngs, Whiteley, Allan
FH: Pollard, (Shillcock), Wilkinson, Meredith
LW: OHC, Bassett, Simmons
IC: Kelly, Kata, Woodward
OC: Perese, (Kelly), New Signing (almost definitely
RW: Watson, (Steward), (Bassett), (Simmons), (Brown)
FB: Steward, Shillcock, (Watson), Brown



So in order of likelihood I think these are the signings to come:

Outside Centre - bonus if they play wing (especially right wing)
Tighthead prop - with the possibility they can cover LH too
Lock - big grunt style over Lineout type
No.8 - a no.8 who possibly covers 7, or at least is a real jackle threat from 8 for when Reffell isn't playing

Thanks for this TFS.. great post. Worth noting that Hanro can cover 4-8 although clearly is preferred at 6. Martin is another who can provide cover at 6 but I’d be keen to see him at lock with a back row of Liebenberg, Reffel, TBC

[AViewFromLe2]

This is roughly depth chart as I'm expecting it next season brackets mean they cover here but primarily play elsewhere.

LH: Smith, Cronin, Whitcombe, Van Der Flier
HK: Montoya, Clare, Vanes, Theobald-Thomas
TH: Heyes, Cole, Hurd, New Signing (probably, possibly also cover LH also based on rumours)
LK: Martin, Wells, New Signing (likely) or T.Manz (unlikely)
LK: O.Chessum, Henderson, L.Chessum, (Carnduff)
BF: Liebenberg, Rogerson, Carnduff
OF: Reffell, Illione, Cracknell
N8: Hatherall, Beets, (Cracknell/Rogerson), New Signing (probably just over 50:50 we make a signing here)


SH: JvP, Youngs, Whiteley, Allan
FH: Pollard, (Shillcock), Wilkinson, Meredith
LW: OHC, Bassett, Simmons
IC: Kelly, Kata, Woodward
OC: Perese, (Kelly), New Signing (almost definitely
RW: Watson, (Steward), (Bassett), (Simmons), (Brown)
FB: Steward, Shillcock, (Watson), Brown


So in order of likelihood I think these are the signings to come:

Outside Centre - bonus if they play wing (especially right wing)
Tighthead prop - with the possibility they can cover LH too
Lock - big grunt style over Lineout type
No.8 - a no.8 who possibly covers 7, or at least is a real jackle threat from 8 for when Reffell isn't playing

This is personal opinion, but i think we will only see a centre coming in for sure, as that is the major hole there. TH i think will be covered by Tim Hoyt, which as 4th choice i am comfortable with.

The only question is whether another lock or back row comes in. Personally the answer to that is where they see Hatherall playing. If they see Hatherall primarily as a lock, then we need another back row. If we see him primarily as a back row, we need another lock.

If i was Head of Recruitment, i would have Hatherall as a back row, and look to bring in another lock who is big enough to do the grunt work.

[Leicestertinytiger]

I agree - I’d be shocked to see 4 new signings yet to be announced.

We were always rumoured to be bringing in 2 new centres. Given Porter and Scott leaving this is almost a certainty now.

Other than that I’d hope we’d bring in another 8. Simmonds would be a great signing and maybe long term look to bring in his brother when Pollard leaves.

So I’d see 2 more signings but be very surprised to see any more.

[ABClub]

Ball carriers, ball carriers and ball carriers. That's what the remaining recruitment in the pack should be for me.

I worry the forwards are feeling a bit heavy on mid-quality players. We have lots of decent players but few with that top end physicality or ability to get over the gain line from slow ball. Yards after contact have been lacking even with Jasper. He's in the top bracket of international players for that skill.

1.Smith 2.Montoya 3.Cole 4.Martin 5.Chessum 6.Hatherell 7.Reffell 8.Hanro

That's bare bones ball carrying for a full strength pack. Lots of quality but it looks very reliant on Montoya and Martin being fit and playing 80 minutes every time they face tough opposition in terms of getting over the gain line.

1.Cronin 2.Clare 3.Heyes 4.Wells 5.Henderson 6.Rogerson 7.Ilione 8.Cracknell

That's approaching non-existent in terms of ball carrying. Henderson runs good lines but he's probably the best there. Ball carriers are critically endangered in that pack. Some 80-year-old turtles in an animal sanctuary who can't reproduce levels of ball carrying. No ball carriers seen in the wild for a couple of decades. Nature documentaries could end with a sad string arrangement, a text line for donations and a slightly broken voice over about ball carriers nearly being gone whilst showing footage of that pack trying to get over the gain line.

1.Whitcombe 2.Vanes/FTT 3.Hurd 4.L Chessum 5.T Manz? 6.Carnduff 7.J Manz 8.Beets

Beets is very talented but a project. Good signing but he hasn't made his pro debut. After that, I think Whitcombe has some talent when it comes to carrying off 9 but he hardly stands out for the position.

Bare minimum for me would be another lock who can carry well so we aren't as reliant on Martin and a prop (maybe Eloff?) who can carry hard so that Montoya isn't the only front row in the squad who can be relied on to get over the gain line. Realistically, we may well need a number 8 who can carry on top of a lock and prop.

Rugby isn't only about big men running into each other and getting over the gain line. Doing that well makes every other part of rugby look easier though!

[Rugbygramps]

I totally agree about ball carriers.
Strongest pack for me next season Smith, Montoya, Heyes , Martin, Chessum, Liebenberg, Reffell Hatherall. 7 of those are capable of carrying for me in varying degrees, sometimes it’s the ruck speeds more than the distance.
An issue for me here is Reffell. Compare him to say Will Evans, similar size and his ball carrying is poor. Tommy turnover he may be, but it was 11 turnovers in 5 games in the 6 nations, just over 2 a game, is he a luxury know especially with Wiese moving on.
Just like Steward has areas he needs to work on, so does Reffell and it would make a huge difference especially in open field

[Tiglon]

We are definitely a bit light on ball carriers in the pack, however what's most important is how you use them.

I feel that over the last 10 years we've often used big carriers (perhaps more so in the backs) to mitigate the lack of attacking structure or ideas.

Reffell running at an outside shoulder or half gap is probably going to make more ground than Wiese running at a group of comfortably set defenders.

Carrying power is a great way to get over the gainline, get the defence on the back foot, and produce quick ball. But it's not the only way. Accuracy and a bit of imagination can be just as potent.

[OakhamTiger32]

We are just a few signings away from a very solid squad. Rumours of Eloff and Simmonds would make a very tasty matchday 23:

1. Smith
2. Montoya
3. Eloff
4. Martin
5. Chessum
6. Liebenberg
7. Reffell
8. Simmonds
9. JvP
10. Pollard
11. OHC
12. Kelly
13. Perese
14. Watson
15. Steward

16. Clare
17. Cronin
18. Cole
19. Wells
20. Beets
21. Youngs
22. Shilcock
23. Kata

I’m not saying Cronin and Cole would be on the bench just having a play.. Heyes likely to be in the mix too and perhaps a 6/2 split with Cracknell on the bench.. looks tasty to me.. just a few signings away.. Cole could easily start with Heyes on the bench so perhaps a big lock and an 8 might be the priority.. a prop who can play either side like LDB could would be useful though.. bolster the squad for the international periods