LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[Darc Tiger]

A few names I'll be sad to see go, but removing any emotion from it, nobody that I think we can't do without. With the exception of Jasper, of course.

[Rugbygramps]

A few names I'll be sad to see go, but removing any emotion from it, nobody that I think we can't do without. With the exception of Jasper, of course.

Absolutely agree with this

[Offside]

When you see young players come in you image a stable team one day. An experience back line with JVP, Atkinson, Kelly, Porter, Potter, Steward seemed a good outcome with team cohesion. Another rebuild on the cards?

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

If nothing else this is the right way of announcing departures rather than some of the previous nonsense, all we need now is more clarity on injuries (amongst other things) & the mushroom farm might need to close.

I hope Porter is leaving to play rugby elsewhere.

I would take a punt on Manz Snr & give him a years contract, keep Cusick as well, personally I would be trying to keep Edwards but I really wouldn't blame him if he is leaving.

[Rugbygramps]

There was some uncertainty over Lenny in some outlets, assume we are getting another season out of him

[TigerFeetSteve]

There was some uncertainty over Lenny in some outlets, assume we are getting another season out of him

He extended his contract with us to cover next season less than 4 months ago in December...

[sk 88]

The professionals apparently know what they are doing.

It's pretty clear we'll be signing a tighthead prop & lock. We'll probably be fine at hooker but it wouldn't need a massive injury run to end up with a temporary signing. Backrow we could trust the academy for all our needs or make a signing.

In the backs we could do with a bit more positional flexibility, but we've got rid of quite a lot of that over the last season losing Potter then Porter. We've sleep walked into massive turnover in the backs yet again, and the look of the back three means there will quite likely be more change again.

It doesn't strike me as part of a master plan I must say.

6 backs 6 forwards listed. Of those Powell signed to cover RWC, Wollett only ever short term, Atkinson was a surprise but was 3rd choice 10 and received an offer from Gloucester. The other 3 Cocanasinga has never really impressed despite being given opportunity, Scott wants to move back to Edinburgh so personal reasons, and it’s been said that Porter wishes to return to Australia again personal reasons. Not sure much could have been done about any of those

That's what I mean.

Standing back we've lost every player in the backs from 2022 bar Youngs, van Poortvliet, Kelly, Steward and Simmons. Are we claiming that WAS part of a plan? We were told, consistently, after 2020 that we were trying to build cohesion & that this was very, very important.

[sk 88]

If nothing else this is the right way of announcing departures rather than some of the previous nonsense, all we need now is more clarity on injuries (amongst other things) & the mushroom farm might need to close.

I hope Porter is leaving to play rugby elsewhere.

I would take a punt on Manz Snr & give him a years contract, keep Cusick as well, personally I would be trying to keep Edwards but I really wouldn't blame him if he is leaving.

Agree on all points.

[Rugbygramps]

The professionals apparently know what they are doing.

It's pretty clear we'll be signing a tighthead prop & lock. We'll probably be fine at hooker but it wouldn't need a massive injury run to end up with a temporary signing. Backrow we could trust the academy for all our needs or make a signing.

In the backs we could do with a bit more positional flexibility, but we've got rid of quite a lot of that over the last season losing Potter then Porter. We've sleep walked into massive turnover in the backs yet again, and the look of the back three means there will quite likely be more change again.

It doesn't strike me as part of a master plan I must say.

6 backs 6 forwards listed. Of those Powell signed to cover RWC, Wollett only ever short term, Atkinson was a surprise but was 3rd choice 10 and received an offer from Gloucester. The other 3 Cocanasinga has never really impressed despite being given opportunity, Scott wants to move back to Edinburgh so personal reasons, and it’s been said that Porter wishes to return to Australia again personal reasons. Not sure much could have been done about any of those

That's what I mean.

Standing back we've lost every player in the backs from 2022 bar Youngs, van Poortvliet, Kelly, Steward and Simmons. Are we claiming that WAS part of a plan? We were told, consistently, after 2020 that we were trying to build cohesion & that this was very, very important.

I take your point but at that stage I doubt the plan included 3 different head coaches in 3 years, for whatever the reason. That fact alone means Mckellar needs patience and time

[TigerFeetSteve]

The professionals apparently know what they are doing.

It's pretty clear we'll be signing a tighthead prop & lock. We'll probably be fine at hooker but it wouldn't need a massive injury run to end up with a temporary signing. Backrow we could trust the academy for all our needs or make a signing.

In the backs we could do with a bit more positional flexibility, but we've got rid of quite a lot of that over the last season losing Potter then Porter. We've sleep walked into massive turnover in the backs yet again, and the look of the back three means there will quite likely be more change again.

It doesn't strike me as part of a master plan I must say.

6 backs 6 forwards listed. Of those Powell signed to cover RWC, Wollett only ever short term, Atkinson was a surprise but was 3rd choice 10 and received an offer from Gloucester. The other 3 Cocanasinga has never really impressed despite being given opportunity, Scott wants to move back to Edinburgh so personal reasons, and it’s been said that Porter wishes to return to Australia again personal reasons. Not sure much could have been done about any of those

That's what I mean.

Standing back we've lost every player in the backs from 2022 bar Youngs, van Poortvliet, Kelly, Steward and Simmons. Are we claiming that WAS part of a plan? We were told, consistently, after 2020 that we were trying to build cohesion & that this was very, very important.

I think to some extent the whole moneyball philosophy does suggest a higher turnover in players.

The moneyball strategy identified that players early and late in their careers were undervalued.

Therefore we sign players towards the end of careers: Wigglesworth, Ashton, Moroni (who we released too early) but that means they are often 2 or 3 years with us max.

The younger players turn in to prime players and possibly we cannot afford them all when they reach their primes...

[OakhamTiger32]

The professionals apparently know what they are doing.

It's pretty clear we'll be signing a tighthead prop & lock. We'll probably be fine at hooker but it wouldn't need a massive injury run to end up with a temporary signing. Backrow we could trust the academy for all our needs or make a signing.

In the backs we could do with a bit more positional flexibility, but we've got rid of quite a lot of that over the last season losing Potter then Porter. We've sleep walked into massive turnover in the backs yet again, and the look of the back three means there will quite likely be more change again.

It doesn't strike me as part of a master plan I must say.

6 backs 6 forwards listed. Of those Powell signed to cover RWC, Wollett only ever short term, Atkinson was a surprise but was 3rd choice 10 and received an offer from Gloucester. The other 3 Cocanasinga has never really impressed despite being given opportunity, Scott wants to move back to Edinburgh so personal reasons, and it’s been said that Porter wishes to return to Australia again personal reasons. Not sure much could have been done about any of those

That's what I mean.

Standing back we've lost every player in the backs from 2022 bar Youngs, van Poortvliet, Kelly, Steward and Simmons. Are we claiming that WAS part of a plan? We were told, consistently, after 2020 that we were trying to build cohesion & that this was very, very important.

Van Wyk, Henry, Taute, Kini, Nemani and Wigglesworth.. not sure many would still be here for one reason or another.. plenty on there not up to scratch, a few retirements. Was sad to see Moroni leave but I’d say we have kept the best of the bunch and the rest moved on.. not really surprising and I’d say that’s true of most clubs.. might be wrong. People retire, get moved on if they’re not good enough and a few make big money moves or move to get regular game time. Not sure it was part of the plan but you can see the thinking behind most of the 2022 crowd not being here now

[TigerFeetSteve]

Julian White last week.
Johno this week.
Love getting the ex players in to help with the squad

[sam16111986]

6 backs 6 forwards listed. Of those Powell signed to cover RWC, Wollett only ever short term, Atkinson was a surprise but was 3rd choice 10 and received an offer from Gloucester. The other 3 Cocanasinga has never really impressed despite being given opportunity, Scott wants to move back to Edinburgh so personal reasons, and it’s been said that Porter wishes to return to Australia again personal reasons. Not sure much could have been done about any of those

That's what I mean.

Standing back we've lost every player in the backs from 2022 bar Youngs, van Poortvliet, Kelly, Steward and Simmons. Are we claiming that WAS part of a plan? We were told, consistently, after 2020 that we were trying to build cohesion & that this was very, very important.

I think to some extent the whole moneyball philosophy does suggest a higher turnover in players.

The moneyball strategy identified that players early and late in their careers were undervalued.

Therefore we sign players towards the end of careers: Wigglesworth, Ashton, Moroni (who we released too early) but that means they are often 2 or 3 years with us max.

The younger players turn in to prime players and possibly we cannot afford them all when they reach their primes...

The way the Oakland A's operated when they created the money ball philosophy certainly meant there was a turnover of players. Undervalued players don't remain undervalued and those you've found with a little bit left in the tank eventually run out.

Rugby does tend towards turnover of players as contracts are normally two year deals and a lot can change in two years. Injuries, change in coach, previously over/under valued and salary cap pressure all have an impact on whether you can/want to retain a player.

[RagingBull]

Yeh I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that Borthwick focus on the backs was one season at the time and no long term plan just look at the players he signed generally. Two backs that I feel we could've kept and should've kept in hindsight are Freddie Burns and Moroni. Burns IMO always had unfinished business in Japan though.


On the leavers
Leicester Tigers 2023/2024 Farewells not mentioning the short term ones
Phil Cokanasiga - Unlucky with game time but all 3 coaches seemed to not fully trust him. Signed as a 13 but he's a natural 12
Nic Dolly - Prob for the best in terms of cap, he won't be cheap on the whole. We didn't miss him this season.
Guy Porter - Shame but if he goes back to aus then it's not really something we could compete with IMO
Dan Richardson - Did a job but IMO would use Dolly cap to upgrade this
Matt Scott - Prob my fav centre since Allen, but like Porter if he is moving to study scottish law in prep for retirement not much we can do
Jasper Wiese - Biggest loss and not even close prob Tigers best 8 since Richards impossible to find a like for like
Francois van Wyk - Nicky Smith is a upgrade on him. But did what was asked of him.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Interesting that Anthony Watson is sharing on Instagram posts showing him with removals companies based in the Midlands.

Has he made the move to the Leicester area just that bit more permanent.

Hopefully he'll be fit going forward into next season