LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[Rugbygramps]

they are good players but if keeping them meant losing someone like Carnduff who has the potential to be better I think I'd lean towards letting them go, rather keep them though.

I wonder what's going to happen with Illione too, when he starts his doctor training he's going to be really busy and how that will affect his training and availability for us, at some point we may have to make a hard call with him

I would agree that if it was a choice between Carnduff and Rogerson, then Carnduff every time, and hopefully he will get more and more game time.
Imo Cracknell offers a more physical edge than both of them

[LE18]

Am I alone, at the end of each season I say to myself why have we let so and so go, I thought he was a really good player, then I look/listen to the list of players we have signed and think wow he's great we will win things this season, then the season ends and leaves me wondering. This year ending Im not getting excited about any incomings and wondering about the rumoured leavers?
Am I just a bad judge of the players or is there something else?

[Tiglon]

they are good players but if keeping them meant losing someone like Carnduff who has the potential to be better I think I'd lean towards letting them go, rather keep them though.

I wonder what's going to happen with Illione too, when he starts his doctor training he's going to be really busy and how that will affect his training and availability for us, at some point we may have to make a hard call with him

I would agree that if it was a choice between Carnduff and Rogerson, then Carnduff every time, and hopefully he will get more and more game time.
Imo Cracknell offers a more physical edge than both of them

Agreed, and that's the point. When a young player is good enough I'm confident we'll prioritise him. I'm sure we will see a lot more of Carnduff next season and we won't be letting him go so we can keep Rogerson for another few years.

Guys like Rogerson and Cracknell are critical to our success. You can't have a squad entirely made up by youngsters and superstars, it just doesn't work. Some people might call them journeymen, but I'd call them absolute grafters - imagine the physical toll of Prem rugby without the acclaim or huge salary. I'm sure they love it, but it's also undoubtedly seriously tough and that deserves respect.

Generally, the club gets the vast majority of these calls right. Lewington is the most glaring exception to that, I don't remember having any particularly decent wingers at that time apart from Goneva and Thompstone. Maybe I'm forgetting others, but our general recruitment and squad management was pretty atrocious at that time anyway.

[fentiger]

Guys like Rogerson and Cracknell are critical to our success. You can't have a squad entirely made up by youngsters and superstars, it just doesn't work. Some people might call them journeymen, but I'd call them absolute grafters - imagine the physical toll of Prem rugby without the acclaim or huge salary. I'm sure they love it, but it's also undoubtedly seriously tough and that deserves respect.
Absolutely!
Generally, the club gets the vast majority of these calls right. Lewington is the most glaring exception to that, I don't remember having any particularly decent wingers at that time apart from Goneva and Thompstone. Maybe I'm forgetting others, but our general recruitment and squad management was pretty atrocious at that time anyway.
Maybe because Lewington wasn't the player we see now? I remember watching A team games with him on the wing and him having to be constantly coached from the touchline, almost as if he couldn't remeber what his role was!

[RunTigerRun]

I know the article was written before Perese signed so he may not now be on the Wallabies radar as much, but interesting to see him being suggested as better suited to 12 rather than 13 for the wallabies moving forward...

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-five ... e-schmidt/

I'm not sure whether he will figure in the summer test series for the Wallabies with him moving to Leicester but it could be intriguing if so.

[Rugbygramps]

LE18 you make a fair point. I am convinced that the 3 signings announced will all do a decent job, and will fill gaps, I know Wiese is not being replaced directly.
IMO the days of the big name foreign signings by premiership clubs are coming to an end. The finances aren’t there, and we just can’t compete with the French and Japanese clubs.
We have a fair sprinkling of stardust already, Montoya, Cole, Martin, Chessum, Henderson, Liebenberg, Reffell, JVP, Pollard, Kata, Steward, to name a few, keeping the vultures away and keeping them at the club won’t come cheap.
That’s why I’m a firm believer that Mckellar needs to be given another season, at least, with the help of a specialist attack coach, and no RWC.
Look at the improvements Van Gram has made at Bath, and more lately Skivington at Gloucester, both of whom could easily have been let go given previous season’s results.
As for the leavers apart from the enormous hole left by Wiese, there has been no one announced to date that isn’t being replaced by a player of at least equal ability, either internally or externally

[RunTigerRun]

On another note, the more I think about Joe Marchant the more I think he could suit Tigers, both now and how we are likely looking to play moving forward.

He is a strong runner, with very good footwork and pace - something we have lacked in the backline in recent seasons. If we are looking to attack space more and play with greater ball speed his pace and footwork could match nicely in attack. He is a smart defender, and whilst he isn't a big guy, he can tackle above his weight and makes smart reads. He also likes to defend high up the pitch which lends itself to our off the line high defensive linespeed, but he is quick enough to track back if there is a dogleg in the line (something which I think the likes of Manu, Nemani and other may have struggled with in this area). Marchant is very good under the high ball - which could lend to positional flexibility at 13 and on the wing - again areas where we are perhaps lacking in cover and depth currently. He has often fielded chip kicks from Care and Smith at Quins and I've noticed it's something we have tried recently with both JVP, Whiteley and Pollard in attack. He is also EQP which is never a bad thing with greater pressures on EQP % in match day squads. He's also played with a good number of the lads before with England and if he is able to generate a good partnership with Kelly at 12, JVP at 9, Watson/OHC and Steward in the back-3 then that might lead itself nicely to England selection (I am aware there are other players at other clubs who may get England places! I'm biased towards Tigers of course, but not that green/red/white-eyed ).

I appreciate the conversations/links may be tenuous and the likelihood of us signing Marchant are probably low - but he would be a good fit in my opinion; whatever its worth!

[Rugbygramps]

Re. Lewington it’s really only this season that he has been as high in the try scoring charts. That could be down to him getting more game time due to injuries at Sarries, and also the more expansive game Sarries are playing.
At the time of him leaving I don’t think any of us would have predicted that

Re Marchant, with Manu moving to France and Slade not getting any younger, he may feel a return to to England is due. He might also be attracted by Englands new game plan

[Tiglon]

Guys like Rogerson and Cracknell are critical to our success. You can't have a squad entirely made up by youngsters and superstars, it just doesn't work. Some people might call them journeymen, but I'd call them absolute grafters - imagine the physical toll of Prem rugby without the acclaim or huge salary. I'm sure they love it, but it's also undoubtedly seriously tough and that deserves respect.
Absolutely!
Generally, the club gets the vast majority of these calls right. Lewington is the most glaring exception to that, I don't remember having any particularly decent wingers at that time apart from Goneva and Thompstone. Maybe I'm forgetting others, but our general recruitment and squad management was pretty atrocious at that time anyway.
Maybe because Lewington wasn't the player we see now? I remember watching A team games with him on the wing and him having to be constantly coached from the touchline, almost as if he couldn't remeber what his role was!

Absolutely. Hindsight is easy, and even when he was at Irish I'm pretty sure I was defending Tigers' decision to let him go. You can't predict the future.

[sk 88]

I'd like to keep Koroiyadi if possible, but if he's not good enough, he's not good enough. Can't keep everyone.

The stick Cracknell and Rogerson get on here is so overblown it is unreal.

Just to add, Chester Owen i believe suffered multiple concussions in a short space of time, which was a contributing factor to him leaving.

Well he's playing for Coventry fairly regularly now in the Championship at 20 so obviously wasn't that bad or long term.

We seem to flip flop on whether we want a big development squad where players develop at their own pace, or if we want a tight group aimed at getting players into the first team or moved on by the year they turn 20. Either way can work & has advantages, and the truly best come through whatever, but I don't think switching seemingly every 3 years on a dime as we have for ages is a great look.

[sam16111986]

Guys like Rogerson and Cracknell are critical to our success. You can't have a squad entirely made up by youngsters and superstars, it just doesn't work. Some people might call them journeymen, but I'd call them absolute grafters - imagine the physical toll of Prem rugby without the acclaim or huge salary. I'm sure they love it, but it's also undoubtedly seriously tough and that deserves respect.
Absolutely!
Generally, the club gets the vast majority of these calls right. Lewington is the most glaring exception to that, I don't remember having any particularly decent wingers at that time apart from Goneva and Thompstone. Maybe I'm forgetting others, but our general recruitment and squad management was pretty atrocious at that time anyway.
Maybe because Lewington wasn't the player we see now? I remember watching A team games with him on the wing and him having to be constantly coached from the touchline, almost as if he couldn't remeber what his role was!

I can also remember him having a blinding game in the LV Cup as an inexperienced Tigers side beat Bath in the semi final with Ford at 10. Cockers then dropped Lewington for the final and even said he'd understand if he felt aggrieved. Some time at Notts thereafter and he was off to LI where he looked decent.

I don't think he's ever going to be more than a good club man but that would have done us nicely.

[johnthegriff]

When Alex Lewington left us, AlexTuilagi was still playing as was Geordan Murphy and we had Matt Tait, Scott Hamilton and I think Horatio Agulla possibly.others, opportunities on the wing were limited for a young player.
There have been a few young players leave to play regularly at a lower level and return to give good service to Tigers after they have further matured, Green, Wells, Clare to name just a few.

[TigerFeetSteve]

The lack of an A league is I think starting to show. Koroiyadi can only play regularly on loan. Clubs work hard to find the right loan clubs with the right openings that mean players can train with us and play with them, but it's hard to get them all gametime, meaning that bringing players on need a chunk more effort. So a hard job has got even harder.

[RagingBull]

I'd like to keep Koroiyadi if possible, but if he's not good enough, he's not good enough. Can't keep everyone.

The stick Cracknell and Rogerson get on here is so overblown it is unreal.

Just to add, Chester Owen i believe suffered multiple concussions in a short space of time, which was a contributing factor to him leaving.

Well he's playing for Coventry fairly regularly now in the Championship at 20 so obviously wasn't that bad or long term.

We seem to flip flop on whether we want a big development squad where players develop at their own pace, or if we want a tight group aimed at getting players into the first team or moved on by the year they turn 20. Either way can work & has advantages, and the truly best come through whatever, but I don't think switching seemingly every 3 years on a dime as we have for ages is a great look.

I feel like part of it is making room for the new pool of outside academy players suddenly available
From what I remember there is you 4 academies without a prem team now
This off season just gone we signed 3 players from those teams (Plus Beddal from Cardiff)
We have already tried and failed to Tyler Offiah from London Irish old academy

[jgriffin]

When Alex Lewington left us, AlexTuilagi was still playing as was Geordan Murphy and we had Matt Tait, Scott Hamilton and I think Horatio Agulla possibly.others, opportunities on the wing were limited for a young player.
There have been a few young players leave to play regularly at a lower level and return to give good service to Tigers after they have further matured, Green, Wells, Clare to name just a few.

I know that the games I saw where Lewington played, at that stage in his development showed a defensive lack.