Championship Clubs Promotion

[Ashurstwoodtiger]

Just had a thought one of the problems with promotion for Champinship Clubs is ground size, not supporter size.
In the past Prem Clubs have ground shared with Football Clubs I.e. Sarries London Irish Wasps London Welsh. Why has no one thought about Championship Clubs Ground Sharing with Prem Clubs if this is what is holding back promotion for them
Example Nottingham could share MWWR. Ealing could share with either Sarries or Quins ( both grounds 20-30 mins travel. This would also help Prem
Club in some way as ground could be used every week during season (providing prem league could sort out fixtures)
Thoughts

[johnthegriff]

There was a time when Harlequins opened their doors to sharing with London Irish, it didn't work as many supporters could not attend every week and the Irish after match atmosphere was so.much better than the Quins of that time that the host started to lose supporters to the tenants.
For a club to.maximise revenue they need their own ground to obtain income from sponsorship and non match day usage. I doubt many fans of a team will willingly travel.to another town to watch their side pretending to be at home on a rivals pitch.

[Ashurstwoodtiger]

John good points,but if it made promotion possible and going back to a 12 Team league would it not be a help even if for a short space of time whilst the promoted Club could check the
1) Viability of Prem Rugby
2) Chance to improve/extend their own
stadium
3) Attract casual rugby fans to watch live Prem Rugby without travelling miles to watch a game.

However don't think it will ever happen or even be considered again0

[TheChild]

Just had a thought one of the problems with promotion for Champinship Clubs is ground size, not supporter size.
In the past Prem Clubs have ground shared with Football Clubs I.e. Sarries London Irish Wasps London Welsh. Why has no one thought about Championship Clubs Ground Sharing with Prem Clubs if this is what is holding back promotion for them
Example Nottingham could share MWWR. Ealing could share with either Sarries or Quins ( both grounds 20-30 mins travel. This would also help Prem
Club in some way as ground could be used every week during season (providing prem league could sort out fixtures)
Thoughts

Nottingham would most likely return to Meadow Lane, not share with Tigers. I know this season was the last season of the agreement that should they be promoted, Nottingham could return there. I would have thought however that should the species of the porcine variety take flight and we were ever promoted, that Meadow Lane would likely be first choice.

[AnneM]

If Nottingham came to MWWR, I see one big problem. At the moment the rugby team play at home one week and the football team play away. If there was a team playing even week at MWWR the chaos caused when the football team were also playing at home would be too much for the area to take.

[Rugbygramps]

Imo trying to run a premiership club without having all the revenue generated by home games and not paying rent is a recipe for disaster.
One of the reasons for the failure of Wasps and Irish and less so Worcester

[mol2]

Wasps moved to Coventry so they could have their own stadium and with it the revenue stream that comes with it. That wasn’t enough for numerous reasons such as no fan base nearby and other crippling debts.

On a short term basis sharing might work but even, for example Tigers shared with Nottingham, the costs of opening up Welford Road and staffing it on match days would probably be prohibitive and being in a different city wouldn’t do much to build their fan base.
They would better sharing with Notts County but then priorities for use could be tricky. Different governing authorities and TV coverage priorities would require cooperation above the individual clubs powers to agree.

[Old Hob]

Relocating to another city's football ground did London Welsh no favours.

[ourla]

Just had a thought one of the problems with promotion for Champinship Clubs is ground size, not supporter size.

Is it?

What evidence is there for that?

[Cagey Tiger]

Just had a thought one of the problems with promotion for Champinship Clubs is ground size, not supporter size.

Is it?

What evidence is there for that?

Being slightly pedantic, there are minimum requirements around ground size that have that have to be met. There are none on crowd sizes. Obviously though, low crowds = low income = going bust.

[Pellsey]

Just had a thought one of the problems with promotion for Champinship Clubs is ground size, not supporter size.

Is it?

What evidence is there for that?

Being slightly pedantic, there are minimum requirements around ground size that have that have to be met. There are none on crowd sizes. Obviously though, low crowds = low income = going bust.

Being even more pedantic, ground size is not that relevant either (it could be 20 acres!), it is more about capacity AFAIK...

[Hot_Charlie]

Just had a thought one of the problems with promotion for Champinship Clubs is ground size, not supporter size.
In the past Prem Clubs have ground shared with Football Clubs I.e. Sarries London Irish Wasps London Welsh. Why has no one thought about Championship Clubs Ground Sharing with Prem Clubs if this is what is holding back promotion for them
Example Nottingham could share MWWR. Ealing could share with either Sarries or Quins ( both grounds 20-30 mins travel. This would also help Prem
Club in some way as ground could be used every week during season (providing prem league could sort out fixtures)
Thoughts

Money?

I presume the groundshare works on the principle that the club would be a tenant (as Nottm were at Meadow Lane). That costs money and is a huge gamble that obviously no Championship club is actively willing to engage with (Ealing being the obvious example). Enter a groundshare, don't get the fans in the gate => can't fulfil the obligations of the contract => going bust? Therefore it really is supporter numbers that is the root problem.

If it was that easy, Ealing would have offered that solution years ago.

[Hot_Charlie]

Relocating to another city's football ground did London Welsh no favours.

Yep, or as it turned out, Irish when they moved back into London.

[GB72]

Just had a thought one of the problems with promotion for Champinship Clubs is ground size, not supporter size.
In the past Prem Clubs have ground shared with Football Clubs I.e. Sarries London Irish Wasps London Welsh. Why has no one thought about Championship Clubs Ground Sharing with Prem Clubs if this is what is holding back promotion for them
Example Nottingham could share MWWR. Ealing could share with either Sarries or Quins ( both grounds 20-30 mins travel. This would also help Prem
Club in some way as ground could be used every week during season (providing prem league could sort out fixtures)
Thoughts

Money?

I presume the groundshare works on the principle that the club would be a tenant (as Nottm were at Meadow Lane). That costs money and is a huge gamble that obviously no Championship club is actively willing to engage with (Ealing being the obvious example). Enter a groundshare, don't get the fans in the gate => can't fulfil the obligations of the contract => going bust? Therefore it really is supporter numbers that is the root problem.

If it was that easy, Ealing would have offered that solution years ago.

That is my take. Ground capacity is a red herring. The number of people through the gate is the important thing. To my mind, you need at least 5000 through the gate to make a team a valid addition to to the Premiership. You cannot survive with only one or two thousand through the turnstyles

[Hot_Charlie]

Just had a thought one of the problems with promotion for Champinship Clubs is ground size, not supporter size.
In the past Prem Clubs have ground shared with Football Clubs I.e. Sarries London Irish Wasps London Welsh. Why has no one thought about Championship Clubs Ground Sharing with Prem Clubs if this is what is holding back promotion for them
Example Nottingham could share MWWR. Ealing could share with either Sarries or Quins ( both grounds 20-30 mins travel. This would also help Prem
Club in some way as ground could be used every week during season (providing prem league could sort out fixtures)
Thoughts

Money?

I presume the groundshare works on the principle that the club would be a tenant (as Nottm were at Meadow Lane). That costs money and is a huge gamble that obviously no Championship club is actively willing to engage with (Ealing being the obvious example). Enter a groundshare, don't get the fans in the gate => can't fulfil the obligations of the contract => going bust? Therefore it really is supporter numbers that is the root problem.

If it was that easy, Ealing would have offered that solution years ago.

That is my take. Ground capacity is a red herring. The number of people through the gate is the important thing. To my mind, you need at least 5000 through the gate to make a team a valid addition to to the Premiership. You cannot survive with only one or two thousand through the turnstyles

And this is exactly why the fuss around Ealing every year is also just that. The perceived "injustice" ignore the fact that it is clearly financially unwise to either upgrade Vallis Way or to pay to enter a groundshare agreement (for which realistically you'd need to find a Championship/EFL club willing to have rugby played at their ground and who presumably would want to enter a multi year agreement).