LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[Rugbygramps]

So just to make sure I understand. Posters answers to a perceived centre problem is to move a proven test class 15 to a completely unfamiliar position because Borthwick is trying to look at options at 15. What happens when after the summer tour and he changes his mind, or Marcus Smith proves himself undroppable at 10, and he decides he wants a different style of player at 15.

Personally with a dedicated attack coach a back line of JVP, Pollard, OHC, Kelly, Perese, Kata, Steward, could do some real damage

[RagingBull]

I mean all the Aussie fans had said he was their best back (And from what I saw he was). It's a pretty common thing in Super rugby once a player is off they tend to bench them to bring in someone who will be here next season.

And the game was already lost by the time he got on.

When you say all the Aussie fans.. where did you hear this?

Green and gold forum
Various Social media tweets from the tahs and some Aus rugby media guys I follow. All of it seemed a lost, and all mentioning how basically the two backs who create something are off in Perese and Nawaqanitawase (Granted prob says more about Tahs than the players)

[RagingBull]

I don't intend to have a downer on a player that has not yet joined us, how he performs for us is the only relevant matter. I do think that we should encourage the development of English rugby and for that reason believe that foreign players should only be signed if they are clearly better than what we have as they do tend to be more expensive. Currently on our books we have Kelly and Porter, we are letting Cokanasiga go without really giving him a chance to shine, we have a couple of England Under 20's that are not getting opportunities. I sincerely hope Peres is a brilliant signing that will enhance our team but having watched four Waratahs games since his signing was announced I can only say what I have seen. I freely admit I could be wrong in my opinion, I am not saying he is not a good player I am just not convinced he is better than what we have.

Cokanasiga isn't a 13 he's an out and out 12, he's looked miles better at 12 than the games he has played13 in. He's not even competing with Perese
He doesn't have as high an ceiling as Kelly at 12 either, and Kata has been pretty much the only attacking threat we have used. He's a good player but he benefits a lot in peoples minds in not playing imo considering he's has had some options. I feel it's more Tigers fault for thinking he could convert to 13 and fill that gap.

I really don't get the thinking, the scores against Leinster and the performance in the win against Newcastle do not suggest to me that we look so much better with Steward on the wing and Shilcock playing a more advanced role at fullback. To be honest I am not sure the results for England with Furbank at 15 prove that a playmaker fullback is a good idea without the defensive talent to do the basic job.

Our two best attacking performances have been IMO Quins away and Leinster Away
And in reality both games have had Shillcock starting at 15 and both have resulted in far more cohesive wide attacking play.

If you honestly can't see the difference in attack between those games compared to when Brown and Steward I don't know what to say it's been night and day this season.

I also struggle to see the issue with having Steward on the wing? It's not like we have genuine options to select with Bassett, Simmons and Watson out.

[Leicestertinytiger]

We won two European finals playing two fullbacks at 14&15. Think we need to stick to Steward and Shillcock together for the rest of the season and probably next. Steward chasing kicks could be a real weapon like Roebuck is for Sale.

Hopefully next season Kelly finds his mojo with Perese and possibly Porter back.

[No6_Flanker]

We won two European finals playing two fullbacks at 14&15. Think we need to stick to Steward and Shillcock together for the rest of the season and probably next. Steward chasing kicks could be a real weapon like Roebuck is for Sale.

Hopefully next season Kelly finds his mojo with Perese and possibly Porter back.

With Steward on the wing, I don’t know why we aren’t trying cross field kicks every phase, given his high-ball skills. That and chips or spiral bombs through the middle. Seems a great way to get through the first line of defence and create some unstructured play to attack against.

[Rugbygramps]

We won two European finals playing two fullbacks at 14&15. Think we need to stick to Steward and Shillcock together for the rest of the season and probably next. Steward chasing kicks could be a real weapon like Roebuck is for Sale.

Hopefully next season Kelly finds his mojo with Perese and possibly Porter back.

With Steward on the wing, I don’t know why we aren’t trying cross field kicks every phase, given his high-ball skills. That and chips or spiral bombs through the middle. Seems a great way to get through the first line of defence and create some unstructured play to attack against.

I certainly agree with Steward on the wing, all these fables on here about his lack of pace. Maximum of 6 games to go back 3 of OHC, Steward, Shilcock sounds good

[RunTigerRun]

We won two European finals playing two fullbacks at 14&15. Think we need to stick to Steward and Shillcock together for the rest of the season and probably next. Steward chasing kicks could be a real weapon like Roebuck is for Sale.

Hopefully next season Kelly finds his mojo with Perese and possibly Porter back.

With Steward on the wing, I don’t know why we aren’t trying cross field kicks every phase, given his high-ball skills. That and chips or spiral bombs through the middle. Seems a great way to get through the first line of defence and create some unstructured play to attack against.

I certainly agree with Steward on the wing, all these fables on here about his lack of pace. Maximum of 6 games to go back 3 of OHC, Steward, Shilcock sounds good

agree. Focus on those still here next season too unless injuries so I’d have Kelly at 12 and Porter (?) at 13 or Kata and Kelly as was last night.

Love Scott and think Cokanasiga has been good the last few weeks but focus on developing that understanding with the guys ahead of time imo.

[Rugbygramps]

Imo Kelly could do a similar role at 13 that Slade plays which would work with Kata at 12.
That was how Pollards try came last night

[RagingBull]

Has our academy been the worse in terms of wing production?
Looking at saints Slightholme, Freeman, Hendy all rapid, We just seem to struggle getting Wingers from academy to first team.

Even Simmons wasn't a winger in age grade.

Hopefully Satala and Kinder both live up to promise.

[Rugbygramps]

Random thought. If Billy V is moving to Montpellier would it be worth a quiet chat with Sam Simmonds to see if he fancied an England return.
Not everyone cup of tea I know but prolific try scorer and invariably gets over the game line

[fentiger]

Steward started his senior career on the wing for us, so obviously knows that position well, from there a move inside isn't that dramatic!

[RunTigerRun]

Has our academy been the worse in terms of wing production?
Looking at saints Slightholme, Freeman, Hendy all rapid, We just seem to struggle getting Wingers from academy to first team.

Even Simmons wasn't a winger in age grade.

Hopefully Satala and Kinder both live up to promise.

Think that’s why we’ve gone to players like Potter, OHC etc. in the past couple years as we haven’t had those guys coming through.

Gourlay too looks a good prospect at 15 and wing (though come through the Sale academy I admit)

[RunTigerRun]

Random thought. If Billy V is moving to Montpellier would it be worth a quiet chat with Sam Simmonds to see if he fancied an England return.
Not everyone cup of tea I know but prolific try scorer and invariably gets over the game line

Be worth a shout! Plus if we are looking to go with a more mobile backrow, Hanro, Reffell and Simmonds with Carnduff, Ilione and Beets is a nice balance. Would allow Hatherell to cover lock more as that bigger Martin style lock..?!

Martin, Hatherell
Chessum, Henderson
Hanro, Carnduff
Reffell, Ilione
Simmonds, Beets

With the likes of Chessum Junior, Josh Manz, Beddall, Perkins etc and maybe Cracknell/Rogerson/Wells would be a decent offing both ability and age profile/potential.

[ABClub]

If we were trying to nab an in contract EQP number 8 then CCS or Chick would be top of my list. CCS is behind Dombrandt at Quins but has pushed ahead of him for England regardless so that seems unlikely. Chick seems settled at Falcons despite the issues there. A bit like Chris Pennell at Wuss previously.

I do wonder if Chick would have a higher profile at a club with a bigger budget though. He makes yards after contact, big defensive work rate, solid lineout option. There's a lot to like in him as a 8 or 6 option. I do wonder if he could have done the Ethan Roots role in the Six Nations but with a bit more dynamism and skills.

[Rugbygramps]

Steward started his senior career on the wing for us, so obviously knows that position well, from there a move inside isn't that dramatic!

Are you suggesting that a move to 12 from the wing isn’t that dramatic?

Maybe you could name others that have made that move