Leinster mind games begin? - Champions Cup (A) - Saturday 06th April 2024 - KO:8:00pm

[Rugbygramps]

As I say it isn’t ideal and most formats have their issues. The one thing it does have which the tv companies will love, is the constantly changing picture over the last weekend, a sense of jeopardy if you will. My memory is sketchy but over the last weekend we could have been playing Leinster, Saints, Bordeaux, even one of the South African sides.
I suppose what I don’t understand, and just my opinion, is how posters can say they are annoyed by a random draw

[Rugbygramps]

Again your opinion, you have no facts to back that up, much as mine is my opinion, unless you have access to the goings on at Oval Park. And your answer yo being annoyed about something which is so random that a couple of scores or results could have changed it, is to change the whole rules of the competition, which have been in place since before the competition started. I agree it isn’t ideal but name a format that is

Have I missed something ? Surely every post on this forum that has ever been made is based on opinion unless, like you say someone has a contact at the training ground or within the club ? Even then it could be complete rubbish. My view is my view, I've tried to lay out what I think the options might be, if you don't agree with it then you seem to have this bizarre way of wondering why it was even posted in the first place !! Just skip my posts, doesn't bother me either way. Believe me, I gloss over plenty of what's put on here.

You agree the format isn't ideal, I can still be annoyed about it.

I have no problem with your opinion but I am allowed to question it in support of the side that has been picked when neither of us any firm facts. If it really is your opinion that any of the 3 players mentioned wouldn’t have been picked if they were match fit then I have to respect that I just feel it is strange

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

The whole competition is a mess now, it should have gone back to how it was pre covid, but 2 of the 3 competitions that make it all up don't need those extra games to some extent, a 10 team league obviously does...& unfortunately as the RFU has never been great at bridge building the English teams will always get the "sticky" end of the stick.

[OakhamTiger32]

Such as

Freddie on the wing
Hatherell in second row
Kelly at 13

They’re all playing in positions they’ve played in before on numerous occasions. That hardly makes them round pegs in square holes. People were pushing for Shilcock at 15 what are you going to do with Steward drop him completely. Hatherall was great in the row v Quins all of sudden he’s out of position.
People are either getting their excuses in early or the woe is me the world is against us brigade are out again. What did Brown call them pot holes.
Mckellar will have picked the best fittest squad he can let’s get behind them

Occupied positions by Dan on start team :
Center : 72 times ( Inside Centre 79%, Outside Centre 21% )

So Kelly has played at 13 plenty..

Occupied positions by Freddie on start team :
Fullback : 101 times ( Fullback 90% )
Winger : 11 times ( Right Wing 9%, Left Wing 1% )

Freddie less so on the wing but that’s because he has been a nailed on starter at 15. Playing Shilcock gives us that second player maker and Freddie is no stranger to the wing.

Occupied positions by Kyle on start team :
Back Row : 32 times ( Blindside Flanker 47%, Number 8 21%, Openside Flanker 16% )
Lock : 6 times ( Lock #5 11%, Lock #4 5% )

Kyle has started 3 games this season in the second row so again, not an unfamiliar position.. in fact.. if you are looking at it every time he has started in the second row this season we have won (Quins, Ealing, Newcastle)..

[Tiglon]

Agree with the comments about the format. To have first knockout match as a repeat of group stages is silly. Wouldn't happen in most sporting competitions, with good reason. As others have said, I would have preferred for the format to go back to pre covid. But here we are it is what it is.

We've had some good games against Leinster in recent years - rarely looked likely to win, but often held our own and looked like we could, maybe, win. I don't think this is going to be one of those.

It's hard to look past our pack being caught short in terms of pace, power, energy, skills, nouse.... pretty much every aspect of forward play.

For the first time in a very long time I might choose not to watch the game because I think it will be very painful to watch. Hope I'm wrong!

[Tiglon]

Freddie on the wing
Hatherell in second row
Kelly at 13

They’re all playing in positions they’ve played in before on numerous occasions. That hardly makes them round pegs in square holes. People were pushing for Shilcock at 15 what are you going to do with Steward drop him completely. Hatherall was great in the row v Quins all of sudden he’s out of position.
People are either getting their excuses in early or the woe is me the world is against us brigade are out again. What did Brown call them pot holes.
Mckellar will have picked the best fittest squad he can let’s get behind them

Occupied positions by Dan on start team :
Center : 72 times ( Inside Centre 79%, Outside Centre 21% )

So Kelly has played at 13 plenty..

Occupied positions by Freddie on start team :
Fullback : 101 times ( Fullback 90% )
Winger : 11 times ( Right Wing 9%, Left Wing 1% )

Freddie less so on the wing but that’s because he has been a nailed on starter at 15. Playing Shilcock gives us that second player maker and Freddie is no stranger to the wing.

Occupied positions by Kyle on start team :
Back Row : 32 times ( Blindside Flanker 47%, Number 8 21%, Openside Flanker 16% )
Lock : 6 times ( Lock #5 11%, Lock #4 5% )

Kyle has started 3 games this season in the second row so again, not an unfamiliar position.. in fact.. if you are looking at it every time he has started in the second row this season we have won (Quins, Ealing, Newcastle)..

I spent years playing wing... doesn't mean I'm any good at it though

I'm not too worried about the positional choices, apart from Cracknell at 7, but I'm not sure we have a better option.

I'm more worried about the drop off in quality from Chessum, Martin and Reffell to Wells, Hatherall and Cracknell.

Wing and full back are basically the same thing these days - catch, kick, chase, repeat.

[Scott1]

Wow...ok, let's put it another way .......I'm wondering now, given the 3 aforementioned players, namely Reffell, Chessum and Martin, are not in the squad for the Leinster game, if they are now doubtful for the Saints game. That's just what I think, as, in a game of this magnitude, you'd want your best players on the field. The fact that they aren't there leads me to believe that they're worse than just battered. My definition of battered, if you really want to know is....players have niggles at this time of the season, but a light training week and some physio etc, they can be patched up and play 60+ minutes - most players are going through this now. So, if those 3 can't fit into that definition above, then my thinking is a) they're injured and may not be back for Saints, even though it's 2 weeks away or b) we don't want to risk them, in case their niggles lead to something that stops them playing at Franklins Gardens.

My thoughts on drawing Leinster again were expertly explained by GB72. I can still be annoyed about it. I wasn't a few weeks ago but now the game is on the horizon, it's irked me somewhat !!

Again your opinion, you have no facts to back that up, much as mine is my opinion, unless you have access to the goings on at Oval Park. And your answer yo being annoyed about something which is so random that a couple of scores or results could have changed it, is to change the whole rules of the competition, which have been in place since before the competition started. I agree it isn’t ideal but name a format that is

Many of the formats of this very competition that we have had in the past that have been thrown out and, in my opinion, made the spectacle worse over the last few years. Home and away pool matches followed by top of each pool playing lowest qualifier in another seemed to work superbly for a number of years.

Yes I loved that,the only drawback was the guaranteed 10 points against the Italian teams which made it a tad unfair to those who wasn't drawn in their group with them. But it's definitely the best way to set the competition up. It just seems to get worse and worse every time they meddle with it now!

[Jimmy Skitz]

we needed those big 3 to have a chance of winning IMO, 2 of whom was massive in England's upset win

I hope we can at least give a respectable fighting performance

[Scott1]

we needed those big 3 to have a chance of winning IMO, 2 of whom was massive in England's upset win

I hope we can at least give a respectable fighting performance

Yes,a 20 point or less loss will be a good result for me.

[johnthegriff]

Personally I think Kelly is our best 12 and I would play Kata on the wing. Steward is our best fullback and in my opinion should be playing there. I don't like our second option at 10 being on the pitch from the start, an injury to Pollard means a shuffle round among the backs and if Shillcock has had an earlier knock we have a real problem with Kelly or Steward taking over kicking duties. We will undoubtedly miss Chessum, Martin and Reffell but we are still.putting out a decent team and we still have a chance, in recent times we have selected teams that had little chance at Clermont and Stare and they won.

[Jimmy Skitz]

Personally I think Kelly is our best 12 and I would play Kata on the wing. Steward is our best fullback and in my opinion should be playing there. I don't like our second option at 10 being on the pitch from the start, an injury to Pollard means a shuffle round among the backs and if Shillcock has had an earlier knock we have a real problem with Kelly or Steward taking over kicking duties. We will undoubtedly miss Chessum, Martin and Reffell but we are still.putting out a decent team and we still have a chance, in recent times we have selected teams that had little chance at Clermont and Stare and they won.

the solution to that is to put Wilkinson on the bench instead of Phil C, that fact that Phil C has been picked as the bench player to start with indicated we don't have POrter or Scott available meaning someone would be out of position at 13, Kelly has the most experience playing there, Pollard plays better with a second play maker, 12 or 13 Kelly isn't that so we need Shilcock on the pitch.

This obsession with pigeonholing players into 1 shirt and 1 shirt only needs to stop, players are far more flexible then that.

[LE18]

No Ben, I thought he might be a starter, not even on bench, like I said in earlier post last time I saw him he looked down in the dumps, I just wonder if he is 99.9% finished?

Another week without Watson!

[GB72]

No Ben, I thought he might be a starter, not even on bench, like I said in earlier post last time I saw him he looked down in the dumps, I just wonder if he is 99.9% finished?

Another week without Watson!

If he are down to third choice for the big games, I suspect that there is a decision to be made. Cannot see him being happy ending his England career to find that he is not even warming the bench when doing that often pushes a players club career forward for a couple of years.

[TigerFeetSteve]

No Ben, I thought he might be a starter, not even on bench, like I said in earlier post last time I saw him he looked down in the dumps, I just wonder if he is 99.9% finished?

Another week without Watson!

Watson all but confirmed as out for the season.

With Youngs, he talked about having heart palpations last weekend on his pod. With that it may both explain his absence then but also if they have been cautious about when he returned to training it would suggest if he's not trained much this week why he's not playing. The fact Edwards is playing tonight for Cambridge (he was a reserve up in Newcastle rather than Youngs) suggests that YBY is the bench reserve, but maybe not trained enough this week for a big game

[Jimmy Skitz]

got to feel for Jimmy Whitcombe not getting a look in behind a sub par Cronin and a bang average Van Wyk