LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[ay2oh]

I agree. We can’t skimp on it. We are too poor at it not too!

I just hope it’s not an Aussie that was at brumbies - all far too cosy if so….

I'm guessing that the implication is that Rod Seib is going to come up from the Brumbies to be our attack coach next season. If that is the case then i don't see any issues with it.

Ultimately McKellar has got the job because of the success he had with the Brumbies, so it makes sense to lean into that coaching staff which has worked well previously. We may actually get a proper game plan that the coaches are comfortable with imparting onto the players - the Brumbies had a good, balanced style - makes sense to use that, given that's how McKellar got the job.

It is also a good thing for McKellar to have his people around him, and who are comfortable working together. It is not just players that need to gel, it's coaching groups too, so makes sense to have a group that are familiar with each other already in place. He also needs his people in place as a sounding board, he clearly trusts them, so why not use them.

Ultimately I want McKellar to succeed, if it makes it easier for him to succeed with his people around him then that feels a good decision to make. Also, whilst i don't want him to fail, if he fails with his people around him, then he has no excuses or get out clause. You get accountability.

Sorry where has this implication come from as have seen nothing in the media

[TigerFeetSteve]

Not sure whether I find the number of players getting early releases concerning or not.

On the one hand, if they are not part of our plans for the season then getting them off the wage bill makes sense.

On the other hand, and this may just be me, there does seem to be more than the usual number of mid season departures this year and that does bring about a concern as to actually how tight our finances actually are.

For me it doesn't raise a concern (yet)

With the fact it was a world cup year and we were disproportionately affected by call ups we carried a slightly bloated squad into this season. Especially in a couple of positions we were short...
Namely: Scrum Half, Tighthead and lock. Each of these were where we had 2 or 3 players unavailable in the same position through the world cup.
Hence: Carter, Williams, Powell were all primarily cover for guys at the world cup. We also picked up a couple of guys from collapsed clubs that were a bit of a surprise, e.g. Rogerson and Atkinson.

Those things combined pretty much explains the midseason departures...

[GB72]

Not sure whether I find the number of players getting early releases concerning or not.

On the one hand, if they are not part of our plans for the season then getting them off the wage bill makes sense.

On the other hand, and this may just be me, there does seem to be more than the usual number of mid season departures this year and that does bring about a concern as to actually how tight our finances actually are.

For me it doesn't raise a concern (yet)

With the fact it was a world cup year and we were disproportionately affected by call ups we carried a slightly bloated squad into this season. Especially in a couple of positions we were short...
Namely: Scrum Half, Tighthead and lock. Each of these were where we had 2 or 3 players unavailable in the same position through the world cup.
Hence: Carter, Williams, Powell were all primarily cover for guys at the world cup. We also picked up a couple of guys from collapsed clubs that were a bit of a surprise, e.g. Rogerson and Atkinson.

Those things combined pretty much explains the midseason departures...

I agree to a certain extent and am happy to accept that as the position for the time being. It is just something nagging at the back of my head that we are really cutting things to the bone at the moment and that there may not be that much give left before something breaks.

As you say, it may just be good business sense to clear out some bloat in the squad from after the world cup and I hope that this is the case.

I will happily accept that as the situation unless we start seeing more big names leave to be replaced by prospects.

[RagingBull]

In terms of signings my personal preference would be 5 more I don't think we will get it though.

Van Wyk, Richardson, Carter, Rogerson, Cracknell, Wiese, Wilkinson, Scott, Porter (I hope not), Watson - Out
Smith, Beets, Perese, TH Lock, Back Rower, Fly Half, Centre, Wing = In (Hear me out but maybe Jesse Kriel wage demands has dropped since he's not played since the final...lol)

Cole, Pollard, Youngs I feel are players we need to look at replacements for either within or from outside. Would like to keep Pollard though.

Think Wilkinson could still perform for us in the squad 10 role.

Hoping for three more signings.

Starting eight - Beets will come good but we could do with a premiership standard player to ease the pressure on him. Would someone like Tuisue want a switch with Mercer at Gloucester. Morgan Morris doesn’t seem to get anywhere near the Welsh squad.

Starting right wing - can’t blame the club for giving Watson another chance because when fit he’s been quality. Unfortunately he’s not played this season and the gamble hasn’t paid off.

Squad centre - Scott brought some much needed experience to the backline. We were linked with Sam Spink a while back and could do with some midfield reinforcements.

Tuisue and Morris are both not any better than Hatherell
Tuisue worked for Irish because they play out and out attacking rugby, at Gloucester he has looked poor IMO.
Morris is an a decent 8, I just don't see him as a upgrade.

Ideal world for me is you try and find an all rounder with more carrying oomph.
If Wiese is going back to SA it will be interesting to see where he lands because one of the SA 8's might be available.

IDK I feel a proper Martin cover is more important and potentially easier to find than a starting number 8 I would consider a upgrade on Hatherell.

[RagingBull]

I just hope it’s not an Aussie that was at brumbies - all far too cosy if so….

I'm guessing that the implication is that Rod Seib is going to come up from the Brumbies to be our attack coach next season. If that is the case then i don't see any issues with it.

Ultimately McKellar has got the job because of the success he had with the Brumbies, so it makes sense to lean into that coaching staff which has worked well previously. We may actually get a proper game plan that the coaches are comfortable with imparting onto the players - the Brumbies had a good, balanced style - makes sense to use that, given that's how McKellar got the job.

It is also a good thing for McKellar to have his people around him, and who are comfortable working together. It is not just players that need to gel, it's coaching groups too, so makes sense to have a group that are familiar with each other already in place. He also needs his people in place as a sounding board, he clearly trusts them, so why not use them.

Ultimately I want McKellar to succeed, if it makes it easier for him to succeed with his people around him then that feels a good decision to make. Also, whilst i don't want him to fail, if he fails with his people around him, then he has no excuses or get out clause. You get accountability.

Sorry where has this implication come from as have seen nothing in the media

I think he meant the implication from the poster was they wouldn't want the Brumbies backs coach (Rob Seib) to come in due to it being too "cozy"

Honestly I just want someone in charge of backs that isn't Tigers through and through especially players that played in one of the worse attacking era at the club IMO.

[GB72]

I'm guessing that the implication is that Rod Seib is going to come up from the Brumbies to be our attack coach next season. If that is the case then i don't see any issues with it.

Ultimately McKellar has got the job because of the success he had with the Brumbies, so it makes sense to lean into that coaching staff which has worked well previously. We may actually get a proper game plan that the coaches are comfortable with imparting onto the players - the Brumbies had a good, balanced style - makes sense to use that, given that's how McKellar got the job.

It is also a good thing for McKellar to have his people around him, and who are comfortable working together. It is not just players that need to gel, it's coaching groups too, so makes sense to have a group that are familiar with each other already in place. He also needs his people in place as a sounding board, he clearly trusts them, so why not use them.

Ultimately I want McKellar to succeed, if it makes it easier for him to succeed with his people around him then that feels a good decision to make. Also, whilst i don't want him to fail, if he fails with his people around him, then he has no excuses or get out clause. You get accountability.

Sorry where has this implication come from as have seen nothing in the media

I think he meant the implication from the poster was they wouldn't want the Brumbies backs coach (Rob Seib) to come in due to it being too "cozy"

Honestly I just want someone in charge of backs that isn't Tigers through and through especially players that played in one of the worse attacking era at the club IMO.

I too want someone who will bring fresh ideas and impetus to the backs. My concern is that, given their age etc, we could line up Mike Brown or Lenny to take over backs coaching on a player coach basis to start with.

[westwinds31]

What is Mike Catt doing next ?

[AViewFromLe2]

I know it didn't go down too well on here when i suggested it last time, but i do stand by thinking that we need to look at upgrading Harry Wells. I appreciate he is a good club man, but the last 2 games against Gloucester he was completely ineffective. Tbh i'd say the same about the Ealing game as well; in a game against Championship opposition, he just didn't impose himself at all. His form all season, ever since the shoulder operation is nowhere near previous levels and it is a pretty stark drop off. I would be looking at bolstering our lock division on getting a big, heavy unit in the second row.

[longlivethecrumbie]

I know it didn't go down too well on here when i suggested it last time, but i do stand by thinking that we need to look at upgrading Harry Wells. I appreciate he is a good club man, but the last 2 games against Gloucester he was completely ineffective. Tbh i'd say the same about the Ealing game as well; in a game against Championship opposition, he just didn't impose himself at all. His form all season, ever since the shoulder operation is nowhere near previous levels and it is a pretty stark drop off. I would be looking at bolstering our lock division on getting a big, heavy unit in the second row.

Get your tin hat ready....

[AViewFromLe2]

I know it didn't go down too well on here when i suggested it last time, but i do stand by thinking that we need to look at upgrading Harry Wells. I appreciate he is a good club man, but the last 2 games against Gloucester he was completely ineffective. Tbh i'd say the same about the Ealing game as well; in a game against Championship opposition, he just didn't impose himself at all. His form all season, ever since the shoulder operation is nowhere near previous levels and it is a pretty stark drop off. I would be looking at bolstering our lock division on getting a big, heavy unit in the second row.

Get your tin hat ready....

Ducks for cover!!!

[RagingBull]

I know it didn't go down too well on here when i suggested it last time, but i do stand by thinking that we need to look at upgrading Harry Wells. I appreciate he is a good club man, but the last 2 games against Gloucester he was completely ineffective. Tbh i'd say the same about the Ealing game as well; in a game against Championship opposition, he just didn't impose himself at all. His form all season, ever since the shoulder operation is nowhere near previous levels and it is a pretty stark drop off. I would be looking at bolstering our lock division on getting a big, heavy unit in the second row.

I've been saying this for a while now. My preference as soon as Wiese said he was going was to find a nasty lock/6 hybird type player that sale do really well with finding. (Largely because Wiese is pretty much impossible to replace like for like)

He will always give his all, but the drop from Martin to Wells is just too big in terms of physicality. Green always had his lineout ability to bring as he got into his final years and imo our mauls never looked as good in defence and attack without him.

Aside a back rower I have always liked the look of is Josh Basham his stint in Falcons he was a beast. Japan will be a great experience but at 24 I feel that he will miss the competitive feel of prem rugby like Burns did, he would be for a me a younger upgrade on Rogerson in that he can cover the back row pretty effectively regardless of position.

[INTHESINBIN]

Does anybody know how the summer series to Japan and NZ will impact the start of the 24/25 season? Will the internationals miss preseason again next time due to a rest period?

[Leicestertinytiger]

Thought Basham was mates with OHC at LI?

Tbf I do agree somewhat about Hatherell. If he could rediscover the form he had for Worcester / La Rochelle I’d have no problems with him starting. He showed then he was a great carrier. Something he hasn’t quite shown in a Tigers shirt yet but the ability is obviously there.

[sk 88]

Does anybody know how the summer series to Japan and NZ will impact the start of the 24/25 season? Will the internationals miss preseason again next time due to a rest period?

Presuming a start date of September 28th the players used in the final test would miss the pre-season matches & the first match of the season. They would be able to resume contact training for the final month of pre-season but not play matches.

September 28th is used on the basis of the Premiership Final being on 21st June 2025 & us having no direct clashing weekends with England matches & not playing in the 2 6N rest weeks (like this year).

[sk 88]

Thought Basham was mates with OHC at LI?

Tbf I do agree somewhat about Hatherell. If he could rediscover the form he had for Worcester / La Rochelle I’d have no problems with him starting. He showed then he was a great carrier. Something he hasn’t quite shown in a Tigers shirt yet but the ability is obviously there.

Similar to the discussion about Wells, and other guys clearly off it a bit like Kelly, when there are this many players not hitting their straps it points to something more than the individual players to me.