LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[Old Hob]

We need someone who can kick when Pollard is absent; I don't care about the number on his back. Hold practice and auditions. Maybe we'll find a John Eales.

[sam16111986]

Nicky Smith destroyed Munster in the scrum until he was injured.

We need a better back up 10, stick Shillcock at 15 more.
Cokanasiga ain't it i'm sorry he looks good for us in the prem cup but has yet to bring that form to the prem level.
We need a proper beefy back up to Martin. Wells is fading IMO, not dominating as much anymore.
McKeller needs to start trusting Ilione at 7, because Reffell needed a break today and Cracknell isn't a natural 7. Either trust Ilione or bring in a proper back up 7 for Reffell.

I'd agree with that mostly.

I'd like to see us try Cokanasiga on the wing. Defensive alignment is his issue but he's got quick feet and reasonable power. A shift in position could be the making of him.

I'm unsure why Wilkinson is so untrusted. There was a spell for Sale where he was very good in the Prem, I remember a game against Quins up north where Quirke and Wilkinson and bossed Care and Smith off the park. He could be the answer. Shillcock is a great option to have on the bench as 10/15 cover but you don't want him starting at 10.

The pack looks slow. Cracknell as you say isn't a viable openside for us. Neither is Rogerson. The pack is already very predictable ball in hand we need some more skills on there so that we can have more interplay. We won't be able to rely on Weise to make an obscene number of carries we need to be smarter ball in hand.

[RagingBull]

The pack doesn't need skills, it just needs to get over the gameline for me.
Martin is going to become extremely important for us because outside of Wiese he's the only forward with true fire power.
Big players make yards regardless of the conditions or who you play.

Also I mean Cokanasiga is decent but if we want a winger why not just go out and sign an actual young winger?

Hatherell for me needs to start more
Montoya, Martin, Hatherell, Wiese in the starting XV suddenly gives you 4 starting forwards who can break the line

I would like to see a pack of for a game or two at least next season
1. Smith, 2. Montoya, 3. Hurd, 4. Martin, 5. Chessum, 6. Hatherell, 7. Reffell, 8. Hanro
9. JVP, 10. Pollard, 11. OHC, 12. Kata, 13. Perese, 14. Bassett, 15. Steward
16. FTT, 17. Whitcombe, 18. Cole, 19. Henderson, 20. Ilione
21. Youngs, 22. Shillcock, 23. Kelly

[sam16111986]

The pack doesn't need skills, it just needs to get over the gameline for me.
Martin is going to become extremely important for us because outside of Wiese he's the only forward with true fire power.
Big players make yards regardless of the conditions or who you play.

Also I mean Cokanasiga is decent but if we want a winger why not just go out and sign an actual young winger?

Try Cokanasiga at wing now we've still got him. He doesn't adapt you cut him loose. He does then a useful utility back is in the squad who's both young and cheap.

Martin is quality, he's a substantial step up on Wells.

Signing big men is a nice idea in theory. It's hard to find and expensive to acquire big forwards that will reliably get over the gain line without allowing for some sort of deficiency in their game. Develop a quality bit of inter play between the forwards and then a lot less mass is required in terms of forward signings as whomever we have doesn't have to try and run through a double (or as Weise has had a times a triple) tackle. Leinster and Ireland are masters of it. They've got a pack of good carriers but they are so much more effective but because it's normally against one tackler and often a soft shoulder.

[RagingBull]

If we are gonna give time on the wing might as well put Kata or Porter if they are fit there

Leinster have a pack of pretty big boys, McCarthy has been a key for them this season
They have also just signed RG Snyman who isn't a minnow.

They also have in Porter, Sheenan and Furlong a front that has prob 1000x the carrying ability of ours.

Porter, Sheenan, Furlong
McCarthy, Ryan
Baird, JVDF, Doris

Outside of Wiese, Martin and Doris, McCarthy they are all man for man better carrier than our pack and it would prob be the case throughout the entire depth.

and the only time they actually struggle is against packs bigger than them.

[Postiger2]

Any more news on a new attack coach for next season? Lord knows we need one

[cheltexile]

Any more news on a new attack coach for next season? Lord knows we need one

Andrea said its sorted, whats the problem?

[Offside]

Rugby evolves and it appears to be moving to a more attacking game or mix with a good atrack beating the power and set piece only game. Tigers are evolving bit I am not sure enough or quite in the direction other teams are. DMc needs to evolve his game from where Australia or the Bumbies were too. We need to be better soon but I gear if will not be this year. Now we probably need to go for it more, like Gloucester did. Game plan and skills seem to restricted to win currently.

[Tiglon]

Rugby evolves and it appears to be moving to a more attacking game or mix with a good atrack beating the power and set piece only game. Tigers are evolving bit I am not sure enough or quite in the direction other teams are. DMc needs to evolve his game from where Australia or the Bumbies were too. We need to be better soon but I gear if will not be this year. Now we probably need to go for it more, like Gloucester did. Game plan and skills seem to restricted to win currently.

South Africa's world cup trophy might disagree with you. But certainly when you try to play a power game with insufficient power you're not going to have a good time.

Let's be honest though, Tigers v Glouc was not a battle to decide which style of rugby is the best, because neither team has a particular clear style of rugby. A poor game overall with a lot of poor play from both sides.

[sapajo]

Any more news on a new attack coach for next season? Lord knows we need one

Andrea said its sorted, whats the problem?

Well based on our last 2 performances we have numerous problems

[johnthegriff]

Many excited by our new signings. We have signed a South African Under20's player to add to our home produced English and Welsh Under 20's who are not getting much game time. We have gone to a poor Ospreys team for a prop not selected for the Wooden Spoon winning Welsh side and we have gone to the abysmal NSW Waratahs for an outside centre who at half-time in the match I am watching is being outclassed by the Fijian 13.
Obviously a good player can be in a poor team and I reserve judgement until.I see these guys playing at Welford Rd but I do question whether they are any better than what we already have and my excitement at the signings is a little restrained.

[sam16111986]

Many excited by our new signings. We have signed a South African Under20's player to add to our home produced English and Welsh Under 20's who are not getting much game time. We have gone to a poor Ospreys team for a prop not selected for the Wooden Spoon winning Welsh side and we have gone to the abysmal NSW Waratahs for an outside centre who at half-time in the match I am watching is being outclassed by the Fijian 13.
Obviously a good player can be in a poor team and I reserve judgement until.I see these guys playing at Welford Rd but I do question whether they are any better than what we already have and my excitement at the signings is a little restrained.

I know quite a few Welsh fans who are less than happy about Gatland sidelining Nicky Smith. One of them compared it to Mercer not getting a run out for England. Given how well Nicky Smith did against us last season and how many caps he's got I'd suggest that he's found his face no longer fits as Gatland seems to want bigger options at prop.

I would like to see us use the development squad more and average squad men less next season.

[CrumblingTerrace]

The pack doesn't need skills, it just needs to get over the gameline for me.

I'd argue we look as mediocre as we do because we don't prioritise forward skills. A sidestep, a dummy, an offload, keeping the ball off the floor are all ways of breaking the gainline, and are all employed by the best forwards. If it was just raw power, the likes of Earl, Mercer, Christie, Pearson, Dombrandt wouldn't be the top performers that they are.

[RagingBull]

The pack doesn't need skills, it just needs to get over the gameline for me.

I'd argue we look as mediocre as we do because we don't prioritise forward skills. A sidestep, a dummy, an offload, keeping the ball off the floor are all ways of breaking the gainline, and are all employed by the best forwards. If it was just raw power, the likes of Earl, Mercer, Christie, Pearson, Dombrandt wouldn't be the top performers that they are.

Pearson, Earl, Christie are massively powerful players
Dombrandt personally I wouldn't want in my team really. I think he works for Quins and that style of play only.

Mercer I agree with but even he was completely neutralised last weekend

[RagingBull]

Sam Edwards being linked to Bristol by Fissler

Paul Hill being linked to Edinburgh which makes LDB leaving them very likely

On the fence on Edwards, he didn't really take his chances when he got them in the past, Allen seems interesting player.
When Youngs retires I expect us to be bringing in someone anyway so I don't think Edwards would've stayed longer anyway