Tiglon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 9:49 am
Personally, I think Furbank showed against Ireland why he should be included ahead of Steward. He did some things in attacking play that Steward just isn't likely to.
I don't understand the logic of saying the selection was all wrong after just beating arguably the best team in the world.
All England need to do now is consistently replicate that performance and they'll win a LOT of matches.
Given the obvious change in mindset I’m not sure he did. Freddie would have run Lowe’s kick back and easily scored the try. You have to weigh positive attack against defensive frailties.
I think the selection was spot on and you could say that Furbank contributed to the win.
Consistency is the key one swallow doesn’t make a summer
I've never seen Steward spot an overlap in a split second and sprint 30 metres diagonally across the pitch to exploit it.
I have on numerous occasions when playing for Tigers. Maybe we’ve been watching different games
Oh and it wasn’t a clear overlap until Nash got concussed tackling Freeman. That’s where the overlap came from
Given the obvious change in mindset I’m not sure he did. Freddie would have run Lowe’s kick back and easily scored the try. You have to weigh positive attack against defensive frailties.
I think the selection was spot on and you could say that Furbank contributed to the win.
Consistency is the key one swallow doesn’t make a summer
I've never seen Steward spot an overlap in a split second and sprint 30 metres diagonally across the pitch to exploit it.
I have on numerous occasions when playing for Tigers. Maybe we’ve been watching different games
Oh and it wasn’t a clear overlap until Nash got concussed tackling Freeman. That’s where the overlap came from
I don’t have an issue with furbank playing I think he’s added a lot to englands attack in the last 2 games certainly out wide getting the ball to the wingers, as where Freddie runs great inside power runner lines, both are effective and I think both could be used well by England in this style of attack. The issue I have is why Daly is playing again, surely moving furbank to the wing with licence to roam and attack where he wants like Watson does and wabosa has been would offer a lot more. With Freddie there for the high ball. All this nonsense of Daly has to be there for his long range kicking got disproven last week when he finally had one for the 1st time in years and missed it.
Given the obvious change in mindset I’m not sure he did. Freddie would have run Lowe’s kick back and easily scored the try. You have to weigh positive attack against defensive frailties.
I think the selection was spot on and you could say that Furbank contributed to the win.
Consistency is the key one swallow doesn’t make a summer
I've never seen Steward spot an overlap in a split second and sprint 30 metres diagonally across the pitch to exploit it.
I have on numerous occasions when playing for Tigers. Maybe we’ve been watching different games
Oh and it wasn’t a clear overlap until Nash got concussed tackling Freeman. That’s where the overlap came from
I don’t have an issue with furbank playing I think he’s added a lot to englands attack in the last 2 games certainly out wide getting the ball to the wingers, as where Freddie runs great inside power runner lines, both are effective and I think both could be used well by England in this style of attack. The issue I have is why Daly is playing again, surely moving furbank to the wing with licence to roam and attack where he wants like Watson does and wabosa has been would offer a lot more. With Freddie there for the high ball. All this nonsense of Daly has to be there for his long range kicking got disproven last week when he finally had one for the 1st time in years and missed it.
I agree the issue isn’t with Furbank it’s more with Daly and now to a certain extent Manu being picked ahead of Steward, at the very least on the bench.
Furbank is a better footballer than Steward no doubt, but I’m not sure I agree he’s done that much in 2 games.
For Lawrence try as I mentioned the overlap wasn’t there until Nash injured himself and then only because of quick ball, and also what else was he going to do. Lowe’s kick was unusually poor, so Furbank found himself with 20 metres of open space and all the other 29 players in front of him. I would hope that in that situation any international back 3 player is going to run the ball back into the space available
Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:01 am
I agree the issue isn’t with Furbank it’s more with Daly and now to a certain extent Manu being picked ahead of Steward, at the very least on the bench.
Furbank is a better footballer than Steward no doubt, but I’m not sure I agree he’s done that much in 2 games.
For Lawrence try as I mentioned the overlap wasn’t there until Nash injured himself and then only because of quick ball, and also what else was he going to do. Lowe’s kick was unusually poor, so Furbank found himself with 20 metres of open space and all the other 29 players in front of him. I would hope that in that situation any international back 3 player is going to run the ball back into the space available
I’d hope Freddie would do the same your right, it’s just the speed at which furbank did it, cut so many Irish defenders out the game, then yes he got luck as it freemen’s strength that then keeps the ball alive. But a lot of players and former player like Lenny and Haskell on there podcasts are talking about his his unseen work so he was doing, a lot of organising of players on the 2nd phase of attack when Ford out the game, he also dropped in a the 2nd playmaker a lot as he’s played a bit of ten, which I thought slade was there for but doesn’t seem to. But again I feel he could still do all that from the wing with waboso out. As I agree Freddie should be the starting 15, especially against France who kick a lot.
Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:01 am
I agree the issue isn’t with Furbank it’s more with Daly and now to a certain extent Manu being picked ahead of Steward, at the very least on the bench.
Furbank is a better footballer than Steward no doubt, but I’m not sure I agree he’s done that much in 2 games.
For Lawrence try as I mentioned the overlap wasn’t there until Nash injured himself and then only because of quick ball, and also what else was he going to do. Lowe’s kick was unusually poor, so Furbank found himself with 20 metres of open space and all the other 29 players in front of him. I would hope that in that situation any international back 3 player is going to run the ball back into the space available
I’d hope Freddie would do the same your right, it’s just the speed at which furbank did it, cut so many Irish defenders out the game, then yes he got luck as it freemen’s strength that then keeps the ball alive. But a lot of players and former player like Lenny and Haskell on there podcasts are talking about his his unseen work so he was doing, a lot of organising of players on the 2nd phase of attack when Ford out the game, he also dropped in a the 2nd playmaker a lot as he’s played a bit of ten, which I thought slade was there for but doesn’t seem to. But again I feel he could still do all that from the wing with waboso out. As I agree Freddie should be the starting 15, especially against France who kick a lot.
All Excellent points. I’m possibly mistaken but Ford seemed to be fielding a lot more long kicks than Furbank which would explain the 2nd receiver role, also correct that former internationals see a much bigger picture than us arm chair pundits.
I must admit to being a little perplexed about the situation with Steward, and there are a number of reasons for his absence including him not being picked.
I do wonder if however, considering he was excellent against Wales, if he has either picked up a niggling injury, or he is the player quoted by Lenny who only touched the ball once during an attacking training session and is being disciplined, but they can’t afford to drop him out of the squad. All speculation of course
Tiglon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:41 am
Possible reasons for Daly's inclusion:
2 assists so far, more than any other Emgland player, and only 1 fewer than the highest in the tournament.
4 line breaks, equal most for England alongside Freeman, and joint 7th in the tournament.
Doesn't feature anywhere near the top of the "most missed tackles" table, for England or in general.
I would think, if we want England to be more attacking and score tries, someone who assists a lot of tries and makes a lot of line breaks would be worth consideration.
As for Furbank, he's already carried 3rd most metres for England, ahead of Steward, despite playing in the 2 most difficult matches. He's also made more offloads and line breaks than most England players, including Steward. Again, if you want an attacking game, and you want to pick players on merit, then Furbank is the clear first choice 15 right now. Freddie is a great player, but he has some things to work on if he wants his place back.
I don't think it's about Daly's boot or Furbank's ability as extra playmaker, it's just their attacking intent and attacking ability. The boot and the playmaking are just a nice bonus.
How difficult were the assists? Were the linebreaks spotted against isolated forwards which others would have also spotted? Were the metres made from a kick collect and returned in open space with clear ground in front? And so on,stats never tell the full story but sometimes the eye test does and both have made crucial mistakes in crucial areas multiple times. The bad far outweighs the good for me
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
This being Elliot Daley, 65 times England player and 5 Times Lions who has never been good enough?
Pretty strong statement!
I'd accept that he's no longer as good as other players in the same positions but not that he's never been good enough.
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:25 am
The only shirt Daly should wear in International Rugby is 23. He won't have many missed tackles as he just avoids them.
The England Squad has a fair few large cap holders who just aren't & never have been International level.
Other than Daly would you like to name the few in the current 23 who have never been international level
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:25 am
The only shirt Daly should wear in International Rugby is 23. He won't have many missed tackles as he just avoids them.
The England Squad has a fair few large cap holders who just aren't & never have been International level.
Other than Daly would you like to name the few in the current 23 who have never been international level
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:25 am
The only shirt Daly should wear in International Rugby is 23. He won't have many missed tackles as he just avoids them.
The England Squad has a fair few large cap holders who just aren't & never have been International level.
Other than Daly would you like to name the few in the current 23 who have never been international level
Care, Slade.
Well that’s 2 one of whom has a hundred caps and the other has arguably help spark the back line.
Anymore straws you’d like to grab at
Other than Daly would you like to name the few in the current 23 who have never been international level
Care, Slade.
Well that’s 2 one of whom has a hundred caps and the other has arguably help spark the back line.
Anymore straws you’d like to grab at
It's called personal opinion...but as it doesn't align with yours its obviously an incorrect one...
The fact Care has a 100 caps shows the lack of English 9's in that age bracket, the lack of a viable different option to YBY for England possibly meant YBY wasn't fully pushed.
Well that’s 2 one of whom has a hundred caps and the other has arguably help spark the back line.
Anymore straws you’d like to grab at
It's called personal opinion...but as it doesn't align with yours its obviously an incorrect one...
The fact Care has a 100 caps shows the lack of English 9's in that age bracket, the lack of a viable different option to YBY for England possibly meant YBY wasn't fully pushed.
As for cap numbers Ewells has 30.
It might be a personal opinion but my opinion is it’s rubbish. You originally said that there were a fair few, a few is more than 2, let’s be generous and say 3 a fair few indicates more.
Too say that someone with an international career spanning a dozen years and 100 caps has never been good enough, your words not mine, is just plain wrong, you obviously also feel Wigglesworth wasn’t good enough for test rugby, as Care understudied him too.
As for Slade, one of the most consistent players in the premiership over the past decade and the headline omission from the World Cup squad is to say the least strange.
You’ve mentioned 2 names, Ewels isn’t in the current squad.
Everyone has their own opinion but to overstate numbers as fact is wrong
