Jimmy Skitz wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:26 am
looking at his England situation I do wonder if Steve will be speaking to Freddie about a position change, he is too good a player to leave out, I'd still be starting him at 15 personally but with England having a serious lack of midfield options I could see Steve wanting him there, at least as an option if he's in the 23 shirt
At 6ft 7 he’d make a decent line out option. Are you thinking 2nd row ?
show me the law that says he needs to be in the second row to be in the lineout and maybe stop being so pig headed about players changing positions it happens all the time, otherwise we'd only have the 1 senior fly half at Tigers as the other started at full back just as a quick example
You’re right there’s no law. Touched a nerve have we
I’ve nothing against players changing positions where it suits them and their skill set, please show a post when I have.
Your solution to his slower acceleration is to play him in a position where that is a big attribute.
His biggest attribute is his ability to take high balls and then break tackles once he’s caught them, which he won’t be able to use at 12. He also has a siege gun right foot again the effect of which would be minimised at 12.
I’ve said it before I’ll say it again were it not for Jordie Barrett playing test rugby at 12, he has a better skill set than Freddie this idea would never have seen the light of day.
Last edited by Rugbygramps on Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:54 pm
Freddie does need to work on his kicking & passing to some extent & possibly needs to look at positioning in defence to counter his initial lack of acceleration, my guess is over the length of the pitch there would be little difference between Freddie & the other backs.
Unfortunately For Freddie long runs are rare. I would guess 2/3 are under 20m
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:54 pm
Freddie does need to work on his kicking & passing to some extent & possibly needs to look at positioning in defence to counter his initial lack of acceleration, my guess is over the length of the pitch there would be little difference between Freddie & the other backs.
There is nothing wrong with Freddie’s positional play. I just don’t understand all this criticism of the only English player to make it into the worlds top 10 in the poll where Du Pont came in first.
One thing for sure he wouldn’t have caught Lowes kick with his foot on the touch line
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:54 pm
Freddie does need to work on his kicking & passing to some extent & possibly needs to look at positioning in defence to counter his initial lack of acceleration, my guess is over the length of the pitch there would be little difference between Freddie & the other backs.
There is nothing wrong with Freddie’s positional play. I just don’t understand all this criticism of the only English player to make it into the worlds top 10 in the poll where Du Pont came in first.
One thing for sure he wouldn’t have caught Lowes kick with his foot on the touch line
Nothing against him and no criticism from me. From what I understood, and I could be wrong, SB wanted a full back who could act as a second playmaker as they were losing that by having Lawrence at 12. Steward has no end of top quality skills as a full back but he is not a second playmaker, that requires a fullback/fly half hybrid which would explain the Smith experiment at the World Cup, the use of Furbank and, on my belief that the England A squad was picked by the first team coaches, the use of Shillcock. On that basis, however good he is, and he is world class, Steward does not fit the job description and so may need to develop his skills in another area to be multi faceted and warrant a bench spot. This is nothing to do with pace, passing or defence, he is just not a playmaker.
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:54 pm
Freddie does need to work on his kicking & passing to some extent & possibly needs to look at positioning in defence to counter his initial lack of acceleration, my guess is over the length of the pitch there would be little difference between Freddie & the other backs.
There is nothing wrong with Freddie’s positional play. I just don’t understand all this criticism of the only English player to make it into the worlds top 10 in the poll where Du Pont came in first.
One thing for sure he wouldn’t have caught Lowes kick with his foot on the touch line
Nothing against him and no criticism from me. From what I understood, and I could be wrong, SB wanted a full back who could act as a second playmaker as they were losing that by having Lawrence at 12. Steward has no end of top quality skills as a full back but he is not a second playmaker, that requires a fullback/fly half hybrid which would explain the Smith experiment at the World Cup, the use of Furbank and, on my belief that the England A squad was picked by the first team coaches, the use of Shillcock. On that basis, however good he is, and he is world class, Steward does not fit the job description and so may need to develop his skills in another area to be multi faceted and warrant a bench spot. This is nothing to do with pace, passing or defence, he is just not a playmaker.
I agree he isn’t a playmaker, but are they born or made, difference between Smith and Farrell for instance. Borthwick picks the team he knows what he wants, but as a general question how much play making has Furbank done, Slade seems to have done far more. Personally I would rather have a rock solid 15.
By covering fullback and both wings he covers 20% of the team
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:54 pm
Freddie does need to work on his kicking & passing to some extent & possibly needs to look at positioning in defence to counter his initial lack of acceleration, my guess is over the length of the pitch there would be little difference between Freddie & the other backs.
Unfortunately For Freddie long runs are rare. I would guess 2/3 are under 20m
Freddie is very good at arriving at speed as opposed to going from a standing start. His positioning is outstanding.
Freddie has played flyhalf at school level, he could work on his passing and offloading game. Variation on his kicking. If he starts improving those then he starts to become a very dangerous attacking option.
Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:30 pm
Furbank has performed well at 10 for Saints, so have him on the bench covering 10 and 15, start with Smith at 10 and Steward at 15
I've got a better idea. Smith at 10, Furbank at 15 and Freddie playing for Tigers. Selfish I know but since SB left and took the core of the coaching team with him I have little interest in England. I haven't even watched the Ireland match with wonderboy kicking the winning points. Childish? ... yes, petty?....yes, petulant?...yes. BUT......Tigers? ...yes!!!!
Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:30 pm
Furbank has performed well at 10 for Saints, so have him on the bench covering 10 and 15, start with Smith at 10 and Steward at 15
I've got a better idea. Smith at 10, Furbank at 15 and Freddie playing for Tigers. Selfish I know but since SB left and took the core of the coaching team with him I have little interest in England. I haven't even watched the Ireland match with wonderboy kicking the winning points. Childish? ... yes, petty?....yes, petulant?...yes. BUT......Tigers? ...yes!!!!
Only slight flaw is that Freddie wouldn’t have played any rugby for 2 months
Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:30 pm
Furbank has performed well at 10 for Saints, so have him on the bench covering 10 and 15, start with Smith at 10 and Steward at 15
I've got a better idea. Smith at 10, Furbank at 15 and Freddie playing for Tigers. Selfish I know but since SB left and took the core of the coaching team with him I have little interest in England. I haven't even watched the Ireland match with wonderboy kicking the winning points. Childish? ... yes, petty?....yes, petulant?...yes. BUT......Tigers? ...yes!!!!
Have we any reason to question Freddie's passing?
He certainly hasn't played FH at Premiership level so to use him as a secondary playmaker for England is a stretch. If FB the ideal position for a secondary play maker? 36 did that at centre when he played for England under Lancaster. Farrell was supposed to do that with Ford and latterly Smith at FH but it didn't work because Farrell, being a FH tended to crowd his FH and didn't have the running game to offer the threat of a centre at this level.
You can argue the case for Farrell as a FH but not as a centre other than injury over.
mol2 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:37 pm
Have we any reason to question Freddie's passing?
He certainly hasn't played FH at Premiership level so to use him as a secondary playmaker for England is a stretch. If FB the ideal position for a secondary play maker? 36 did that at centre when he played for England under Lancaster. Farrell was supposed to do that with Ford and latterly Smith at FH but it didn't work because Farrell, being a FH tended to crowd his FH and didn't have the running game to offer the threat of a centre at this level.
You can argue the case for Farrell as a FH but not as a centre other than injury over.
Certainly not questioning his passing or, in fact, any other aspect of his play. I see it as just a case of horses for courses. With Lawrence at 12, SB wants another playmaker and that is at 15 and so Furbank fits the role better than Steward. I am guessing that if you had a playmaker at 12, Steward would be back on the team sheet. Sadly, with our lack of 12s, I can see Furbank being selected more going forward. No criticism of Freddy, he is just a different, albeit world class, style of player and I would rather see that than try and make someone play against their natural style. As I mentioned earlier, he may have to look at improving his play in another position, maybe wing, to give the versatility needed for a bench spot.
