Trailfinders a sad indictment of rugby

[Scuttle]

I am sure the powers that be in Premiership have run the numbers but for me the talk of growing the sport contradicts what happens with TV rights. I think a deal with a free to air channel would more likely attract new people to tune in to see what rugby offered, and then maybe, hopefully stay with the sport. It must be very few who will pay prime money "just to see what it is like". To date I have had little but a passing interest in football but I would not sign up to Sky (or whoever has the rights) just to see if I have actually been missing something......if it was free to air I might tune in.

[Old Hob]

Good point, Scuttle.

I tuned into Channel 4 when they began broadcasting American football. It was free and they had pundits breaking down the game and running information films to explain what, to me, seemed inexplicable. After I understood what was going on a little more, I began to enjoy it.

[Tiglon]

What you would call negativity is what I would call realism.

I just feel you get in a negative mental spiral with this stuff. Anyhow, a rabbit hole which we should probably stop going down.

There are plenty of unalterable reasons why Prem rugby is not as commercially successful as the French pro leagues or NFL. Yes we need to look at some of the reasons for their success and try to emulate them where it is possible to, but we also need to learn from the many reasons for their success that are simply not possible for us to emulate no matter how hard we try.

Let's forget NFL for a moment. We've discussed the French rugby before but I don't remember "unalterable reasons why Prem rugby is not as commercially successful". Can you expand? I believe BT Sport paid £110m for 3 years from 2021 and Canal+ 454 Euros (£390m) for 4 years from 2023. On a per club basis Pro14 teams can claim to bring in £7m per year to that deal. The older Prem deal was something like £3m per club per year. Why the disparity - are the viewing figures for Canal+ much higher than BT/TNT? Is it purely down to Prem football. I don't think so.

How long has English rugby banged on about growing the game? 2, 3 decades? Have we got anywhere? No - our ambition has led to 3 clubs going bust and, as a result, fewer people going to watch live rugby than before. Let's be realistic with what we can achieve and focus on consolidation and safeguarding the existence of the professional clubs that we have, and be content with our status as a niche sport in this country. That, for me, would be wonderful progress and a great cause for positivity.

I don't disagree with the first part. Growing the game means f all without substance, some meat on the bones. And yes mistakes have been made, as I say. I don't see it as niche. Golf is less followed than rugby, is that niche? Hockey, to me is niche, my sport volleyball is definitely niche in the UK (even though it's big globally). Again, saying it's niche for me is overly negative. Bugger, back down that rabbit hole

All reasonable points of view, it's a matter of opinion of course and I may well be wrong.

Why can't the Prem be as successful as thr French league? I do think Premiership football is part of it, clearly there are reasons why we're getting £3m and French clubs are getting £7m - I doubt it's just because we haven't tried. I'm sure there are things that can be done better, but enough to cover the existing expenditure? My feeling is no.

The opposite question is, what have the French clubs done that we could emulate?

In business there is only so much that demand can be manipulated or controlled. We like to believe that great businessmen succeed because of what they've done, but it's not always quite as linear as that. A + B doesn't always = success. I'm rambling a bit now, but there are many reasons why very few businesses or business models work just as well regardless of where you place them.

A lot of it is due to timing and grasping an opportunity when it's there. For rugby union in England I think that opportunity was 25+ years ago when the televised sport landscape was less settled. Will another opportunity come along? Probably, but who knows when...

[Old Hob]

The latest attempt to court popularity comes from Simon Massey-Taylor by way of Courtney Lawes. He wants to publicise the "big hits". Rob Calder, who is the RFU's Head of Growth (wonder how his appraisals have been recently) agrees and says "this is what the wider public want".
They cite the Nike adverts in the 90s featuring Brian Moore, Johnno and Bayfield with straplines saying "It's not the winning, it's the taking apart".
The RFU at the time said these ads were bringing the game into disrepute.

A statistic I'm not sure I understand: "Research by Ernst and Young placed rugby fourth in the table of sports for overall engagement but outside the top twenty, behind MMA, dancing and climbing, for engagement with the 18 to 24 age group.

The full article can be seen in the Times and if some clever person can wriggle round the paywall it will be well worth a read.

[ourla]

Here is the article:

https://archive.ph/RCXEQ

It is worth a read from several angles.

[Tiglon]

I agree with a lot in the article. The physicality is a huge part of what we love about rugby and it's what makes the sport unique.

We shouldn't be scared of being controversial or not being loved by everyone.

[Old Hob]

Strange announcement from Chiefs.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/footbal ... a571&ei=20

[Jimmy Skitz]

Strange announcement from Chiefs.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/footbal ... a571&ei=20

someone has thrown a tantrum ...

[Hot_Charlie]

All reasonable points of view, it's a matter of opinion of course and I may well be wrong.

Why can't the Prem be as successful as thr French league? I do think Premiership football is part of it, clearly there are reasons why we're getting £3m and French clubs are getting £7m - I doubt it's just because we haven't tried. I'm sure there are things that can be done better, but enough to cover the existing expenditure? My feeling is no.

The opposite question is, what have the French clubs done that we could emulate?

Charles Richardson did an excellent article about a year ago. The bottom line was that 3rd/4th tier rugby in France is a community event that attracts - in some cases - hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of fans, and always has done.

Hard to try and replicate a tribal environment like that.

Here it is, but I'm not sure if it's out from behind a paywall:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... rn-top-14/

[Robespierre]

All reasonable points of view, it's a matter of opinion of course and I may well be wrong.

Why can't the Prem be as successful as thr French league? I do think Premiership football is part of it, clearly there are reasons why we're getting £3m and French clubs are getting £7m - I doubt it's just because we haven't tried. I'm sure there are things that can be done better, but enough to cover the existing expenditure? My feeling is no.

The opposite question is, what have the French clubs done that we could emulate?

Charles Richardson did an excellent article about a year ago. The bottom line was that 3rd/4th tier rugby in France is a community event that attracts - in some cases - hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of fans, and always has done.

Hard to try and replicate a tribal environment like that.

Here it is, but I'm not sure if it's out from behind a paywall:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... rn-top-14/

A good article! Living a bit south of Toulouse, I've supported Tigers at Pau (x2) Toulouse and Castres, and what Charles Richardson says is accurate. Pre and post match hospitality is second to none.
I went to the Toulouse v Bath match in January with a French pal and enjoyed a foie gras sandwich for starters swiftly followed by a duck heart one. Mmmm!

[Hot_Charlie]

All reasonable points of view, it's a matter of opinion of course and I may well be wrong.

Why can't the Prem be as successful as thr French league? I do think Premiership football is part of it, clearly there are reasons why we're getting £3m and French clubs are getting £7m - I doubt it's just because we haven't tried. I'm sure there are things that can be done better, but enough to cover the existing expenditure? My feeling is no.

The opposite question is, what have the French clubs done that we could emulate?

Charles Richardson did an excellent article about a year ago. The bottom line was that 3rd/4th tier rugby in France is a community event that attracts - in some cases - hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of fans, and always has done.

Hard to try and replicate a tribal environment like that.

Here it is, but I'm not sure if it's out from behind a paywall:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... rn-top-14/

A good article! Living a bit south of Toulouse, I've supported Tigers at Pau (x2) Toulouse and Castres, and what Charles Richardson says is accurate. Pre and post match hospitality is second to none.
I went to the Toulouse v Bath match in January with a French pal and enjoyed a foie gras sandwich for starters swiftly followed by a duck heart one. Mmmm!

Things we can only dream of here. If only we could get a stilton burger or a Melton Mowbray pork pie in the stadium.