2024 Six Nations Chat

[Pellsey]

Ireland by 11-15

I believe England will be lucky to keep it that close. I think Ireland will win by at least 20.

[westwinds31]

It's quite sad to see that the media and fan narrative seems to have filtered through to the coaching staff, where we have to change the way that we play to be successful. As a pundit (can't remember who) said earlier in the week, England's strength has always been big forwards, functional set piece and a decent defence. Even in the 2003 days, towards the end that's exactly what we were - it was in the years leading up to the World Cup win that we were tearing teams apart. We now seem to be trying to play an expansive game but have no real clue how to do it, because it's not our game ! It's all very well saying "Saints and Quins are great in attack", picking those players and saying "there you go, play like you do for you club"...it doesn't work like that. The South African model, massive forwards, huge scrum including the bench, some pace out wide if....and it's a big if....they need it. That's the way forward. I sincerely hope Borthwick and coaches crack it, but it's going against everything that he and England stand for.

[sam16111986]

Absolutely. How did we win the premiership and what have Quins and Saints won recently?
I am starting to wonder if SB just got lucky with us that year. Certainly did nit evolve much in the following year.

He changed how we were playing the year following the Prem win, tried to evolve the attack without much success. The ambition was there but we execution was lacking, not helped by the fact we didn't have Pollard for a run of games until Borthwick was leaving.

I suspect we'll have the same problem with England re ambition and execution until a more experienced attack coach joins at the end of the summer.

I don't think Borthwick did that at all beginning of last season, he tried to play exactly these same way we won the season before, but without a bunch of the integral parts of that success, we were completely found out, it was a complete mess, for me the jury is very much out on his ability as a Head Coach.

I disagree entirely. There was very much a change in the attacking intent, I think Borthwick even said it later on before he went to England. I think the issue was trying to implement it, as you say minus several of the big name players. It's certainly always easier when your big name 10 stays fit, see Ford in the season we won the title, Sarries have had great value for money from Farrell etc. We are a much better side when Pollard is fit and firing, had he not pulled out of the side to play Sale I still think we win that play off game.

Borthwick is a good head coach, not sure he's a great head coach yet. He rebuilt Tigers fantastically well. He took England to third at the world cup, certainly the draw helped but even when up against South Africa we had them right up to the dying minutes. He needs to get his assistants right and he's on the way to doing that. England have dominated every game so far this tournament but not got close to putting enough points on the board. Borthwick is definitely trying to change the attacking style so we can do that but I think a more experienced attack coach is going to be required to bring it to fruition. Despite the moaning in the media over style we are kicking a lot less and trying to play more phases in the opposition third of the pitch. It's just moments like Furbank's try Vs Scotland are to scarce.

[Leicestertinytiger]

It's quite sad to see that the media and fan narrative seems to have filtered through to the coaching staff, where we have to change the way that we play to be successful. As a pundit (can't remember who) said earlier in the week, England's strength has always been big forwards, functional set piece and a decent defence. Even in the 2003 days, towards the end that's exactly what we were - it was in the years leading up to the World Cup win that we were tearing teams apart. We now seem to be trying to play an expansive game but have no real clue how to do it, because it's not our game ! It's all very well saying "Saints and Quins are great in attack", picking those players and saying "there you go, play like you do for you club"...it doesn't work like that. The South African model, massive forwards, huge scrum including the bench, some pace out wide if....and it's a big if....they need it. That's the way forward. I sincerely hope Borthwick and coaches crack it, but it's going against everything that he and England stand for.

We haven’t got the forwards to play that game. France and Ireland have bigger packs than us and that’s before we even bring SA into the conversation. Back in 03 Shaw, Moody, Worsley, Corry couldn’t even make the starting pack they were that good. And yes teams probably didn’t want to come up against them. We’ve nowhere near that sort of calibre of players at the moment.

We’ve got Martin and Earl. At a push for the next World Cup from the U20s we might have CCS, L.Chessum, Tuima in the pack. But they’re not at the same level of Meafou, Skelton, Etzebeth etc

That’s why we need a functioning attack. Because at the next WC, there’s no way we’re going to outmuscle SA or France upfront.

[westwinds31]

Taking Ireland as an example, the total weight of the starting packs...England are 20kg+ heavier.

[Chobbsy]

Ireland by 11-15

And the rest or are you talking about the first 15 minutes?

[Jimmy Skitz]

yes England have always been based off a strong pack and set piece but the backs more than made a difference back then. they had an attacking plan they worked on, today our backs are there to chase kicks and tackle, in between standing around getting cold for long stretches

[Rugbygramps]

Prepared to eat humble pie but I think it will be closer than many think.
Will find out around 9pm tomorrow as I shall be watching the Grand Prix first

[ourla]

Sadly but realistically it's hard to see anything but an Ireland romp.

England are no mugs and it's sport. Bit of luck here and there, maybe a red card for Ireland (although they are generally very discipled, maybe we'll click.

Other two games much more interesting though tbh.

[Robespierre]

Here’s the French squad for Cardiff with an extraordinary 4 new caps; Barré, Depoortère, Meafou in the starting XV and big Georges-Henri Colombe, a bench prop. 15. Barré ; 14. Penaud, 13. Fickou, 12. Depoortere, 11. Bielle-Biarrey ; 10. Ramos ; 9. Le Garrec ; 7.Ollivon, 8. Alldritt (cap), 6. Cros ; 5.Meafou, 4. Flament ; 3. Atonio, 2. Marchand, 1. Baille.

Remplaçants : 16. Mauvaka, 17. S. Taofifenua, 18. Colombe, 19. R. Taofifenua, 20. Roumat, 21. Boudehent, 22. Lucu, 23. Moefana.

[Old Hob]

Here’s the French squad for Cardiff with an extraordinary 4 new caps; Barré, Depoortère, Meafou in the starting XV and big Georges-Henri Colombe, a bench prop. 15. Barré ; 14. Penaud, 13. Fickou, 12. Depoortere, 11. Bielle-Biarrey ; 10. Ramos ; 9. Le Garrec ; 7.Ollivon, 8. Alldritt (cap), 6. Cros ; 5.Meafou, 4. Flament ; 3. Atonio, 2. Marchand, 1. Baille.

Remplaçants : 16. Mauvaka, 17. S. Taofifenua, 18. Colombe, 19. R. Taofifenua, 20. Roumat, 21. Boudehent, 22. Lucu, 23. Moefana.

Scary. France by 15

[fentiger]

Obviously difficult to see beyond three away wins this weekend...

[Robespierre]

Here’s the French squad for Cardiff with an extraordinary 4 new caps; Barré, Depoortère, Meafou in the starting XV and big Georges-Henri Colombe, a bench prop. 15. Barré ; 14. Penaud, 13. Fickou, 12. Depoortere, 11. Bielle-Biarrey ; 10. Ramos ; 9. Le Garrec ; 7.Ollivon, 8. Alldritt (cap), 6. Cros ; 5.Meafou, 4. Flament ; 3. Atonio, 2. Marchand, 1. Baille.

Remplaçants : 16. Mauvaka, 17. S. Taofifenua, 18. Colombe, 19. R. Taofifenua, 20. Roumat, 21. Boudehent, 22. Lucu, 23. Moefana.

Scary. France by 15

Only 15 My eternal optimism says at least 25!

[KiwiTig]

I've just seen the England team to face Ireland. Furbank is retained... Surely Steward must be injured. Unless SB has completely lost his mind, especially after Furbank's showing last week!?

I want to believe but it’s a tough call ..Steward should be in the 23, no matter what ..Marcus on the bench yet SB tried to fit them both in only a few months ago yet can’t manage them both now ? Too creative ? ..Heyes should consider turning to his Welsh and Irish roots as SB will stick to his boring basics with Cole no matter what and how has Roots gone from Hero to Zero…I have no idea what to expect next …hoping to be pleasantly surprised

Steward been pictured training. Obviously feels Furbank needs another chance.
Assume Root injured with Chessum @ 6 and Dombrant on the bench

How many more chances?
The worse thing that happened was him scoring last match, pasted over the cracks, Ireland will (although they don't need to, to win) putting up high ball after high ball

[KiwiTig]

I've just seen the England team to face Ireland. Furbank is retained... Surely Steward must be injured. Unless SB has completely lost his mind, especially after Furbank's showing last week!?

I want to believe but it’s a tough call ..Steward should be in the 23, no matter what ..Marcus on the bench yet SB tried to fit them both in only a few months ago yet can’t manage them both now ? Too creative ? ..Heyes should consider turning to his Welsh and Irish roots as SB will stick to his boring basics with Cole no matter what and how has Roots gone from Hero to Zero…I have no idea what to expect next …hoping to be pleasantly surprised

Steward been pictured training. Obviously feels Furbank needs another chance.
Assume Root injured with Chessum @ 6 and Dombrant on the bench

How many more chances?
The worse thing that happened was him scoring last match, pasted over the cracks, Ireland will (although they don't need to, to win) putting up high ball after high ball