2024 Six Nations Chat

[Jimmy Skitz]

the stick a certain scrum half would have gotten for playing like either of the England 9s on show tonight ...

I can't wait to here how our woeful backs play was the fault of Freddie Steward/JVP/Ben Youngs/George Ford (pre Sale move) now, the anti Tigers bias will be struggling

What a completely pointless post but I believe Cole scrummaged very well and his chase and tackle was the stuff of legends and Martin was superb bar one dropped catch. Chessum wasn’t his usual very good self. Ford was poor.

for years our poor attacking play has been blamed firstly on Ford, then it was Ben with JvP the messiah, then JVP got the starting shirt and played as Ben did and he was to blame, recently there is an obsession with Steward not being quick enough, its always the fault of the tigers player for these talking heads not the lack of a plan to begin with

[Tigers86asw]

Have to wonder what is going through Freddie’s mind this evening. No doubt he is a team player but there must be the tiniest hint of schadenfreude in there.

probably got a slight smirk on over his beer

I think it’s a poor selection decision to cope with England’s lack of creativity to drop your best back of the past two years.

For over a decade England’s midfield has been constantly changing and we are still having the same arguments. It has now affected a cornerstone of the team and that should be a very concerning thought.

[Jimmy Skitz]

Have to wonder what is going through Freddie’s mind this evening. No doubt he is a team player but there must be the tiniest hint of schadenfreude in there.

probably got a slight smirk on over his beer

I think it’s a poor selection decision to cope with England’s lack of creativity to drop your best back of the past two years.

For over a decade England’s midfield has been constantly changing and we are still having the same arguments. It has now affected a cornerstone of the team and that should be a very concerning thought.

because for over a decade no coach would just bite the bullet and pick one from F & F so any 12's we had never got a real run to develop a partnership with whomever was replacing the injured Manu who they have banked everything on

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Not convinced by Itoje at the moment either. Never seems to get mentioned to be given a rest, but I didn't see much from him today.

[Tigers86asw]

Not convinced by Itoje at the moment either. Never seems to get mentioned to be given a rest, but I didn't much from him today.

I thought he was good in many ways but poor when carrying the ball. Given England’s balance he has to carry far more than he should and often into heavy traffic. Agreed he was not great but hardly poor.

[Tigers86asw]

probably got a slight smirk on over his beer

I think it’s a poor selection decision to cope with England’s lack of creativity to drop your best back of the past two years.

For over a decade England’s midfield has been constantly changing and we are still having the same arguments. It has now affected a cornerstone of the team and that should be a very concerning thought.

because for over a decade no coach would just bite the bullet and pick one from F & F so any 12's we had never got a real run to develop a partnership with whomever was replacing the injured Manu who they have banked everything on

Cant disagree with that. After today- would you pick the same midfield? Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I think Borthwick, to develop the team, has to have some consistency in selection.

[Tigers86asw]

I think it’s a poor selection decision to cope with England’s lack of creativity to drop your best back of the past two years.

For over a decade England’s midfield has been constantly changing and we are still having the same arguments. It has now affected a cornerstone of the team and that should be a very concerning thought.

because for over a decade no coach would just bite the bullet and pick one from F & F so any 12's we had never got a real run to develop a partnership with whomever was replacing the injured Manu who they have banked everything on

Cant disagree with that. After today- would you pick the same midfield? Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I think Borthwick, to develop the team, has to have some consistency in selection.

I would change three- Martin for Roots, Steward for Furbank and F-W for Daly.

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Not convinced by Itoje at the moment either. Never seems to get mentioned to be given a rest, but I didn't much from him today.

I thought he was good in many ways but poor when carrying the ball. Given England’s balance he has to carry far more than he should and often into heavy traffic. Agreed he was not great but hardly poor.

Yeah, I agree with what you say. Was thinking more his carrying, just didn't seem to get any where with ball in hand. Think he should be better than that, break the line more.

[mol2]

There are some players who are not what the press believe but the attack is woeful.
You can’t expect forwards to bash it up and have no offload options and no support for a fast clear out.

The worst moment was Daly deliberately running into the back of a Scotland player rather than competing for the ball. Feeble. Win a penalty for being blocked when the player wasn’t between you and the ball.
Ford hasn’t looked the same since rupturing his Achilles. Care may be the press darling but just looked old and slow. 10 minute cameo player.

The pack isn’t bad but Cole & Marler are still the best two props and both too old for the next World Cup.
Itoje, Chessum , Earl and Martin class acts. However 3 are locks and the other a 7 playing at 8!

A blitz defence is great if your players hold their discipline and make their tackles. No idea where Daly and Slade fit into this. Some of their efforts would have Varndell cringing!

[Tigers86asw]

Not convinced by Itoje at the moment either. Never seems to get mentioned to be given a rest, but I didn't much from him today.

I thought he was good in many ways but poor when carrying the ball. Given England’s balance he has to carry far more than he should and often into heavy traffic. Agreed he was not great but hardly poor.

Yeah, I agree with what you say. Was thinking more his carrying, just didn't seem to get any where with ball in hand. Think he should be better than that, break the line more.

He will be better with Martin at 6 but England’s attack needs much more cohesion to get the best out of him. You are right, he should have more impact in the carry.

[Jimmy Skitz]

I think it’s a poor selection decision to cope with England’s lack of creativity to drop your best back of the past two years.

For over a decade England’s midfield has been constantly changing and we are still having the same arguments. It has now affected a cornerstone of the team and that should be a very concerning thought.

because for over a decade no coach would just bite the bullet and pick one from F & F so any 12's we had never got a real run to develop a partnership with whomever was replacing the injured Manu who they have banked everything on

Cant disagree with that. After today- would you pick the same midfield? Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I think Borthwick, to develop the team, has to have some consistency in selection.

I am a fan of Ollie Lawrence but he clearly wasn't ready for test match rugby after his injury today, which the coaches probably should have known, I would have been happy for Digwall/Slade to get all 5 games, Feyi-Waboso breathed new life into the backs in his cameo start him and have Furbank in the 23 shirt.

Care has to come off the bench for years we have seen this is when he has the best effect and after today I think I'd like to see Randall start over Spencer

[LE18]

England were very poor again today in most departments, SB has nothing to lose now I really feel he has to change his gameplan. He was trained by Jones, he has inherited his style and its based on FHs like Ford and Farrell, both kicking fly halves. We just dont seem to be able to develop a running game, our passing and handling is so poor so to me our option is then to kick it away. Im not a Fan of Finn Russell but today his kicking was spot on we just looked so poor trying to go forward. How I wish we could play like Ireland, where do they get their replacements from?
I realy think its time for Borthwick to experiment, 6Ns gone, time to replace Marler, George, Cole, Care, Spencer, Ford, Daly, and possibly others, we may lose but at least start to rebuild with some of the upcoming youngsters, it will be good to see how the A team show up tomorrow.
Very disappointed with England today.

[kpj tiger]

Personally I think there's a few players in this England squad who haven't produced the good's in a long time and may be worth moving on (Care, Daly, Slade) or even worse who have never produced the goods and don't deserve another chance (Stuart)

Next round I'd like to see a team something like

1. Marler
2. George
3. Cole
4. Chessum
5. Itoje
6. Roots
7. Underhill
8. Earl
9. Spencer
10. Smith
11. Feyi-Waboso
12. Lawrence
13. Freeman
14. Muir
15. Steward

16. Dan
17. Genge
18. Heyes
19. Martin
20. Cunningham-South
21. Randall
22. Ford
23. Furbank

[Ian Cant]

Personally I thought Cole had a decent game as did Martin when he came on but Genge looks half the player he was with us and Earle today gave a couple of daft penalties away and I’m not convinced he’s a good enough player at 8. Play Earle with Mercer at 8 and that might add a better skill set. Itoje is indifferent for England.
Chessum is trying too hard and we all feel for Jamie George but to be honest I think Charle Clare is a more consistent player!
Lawrence is a bit like our Cockasigna: so inconsistent in attack and defence.
Steward/ Furbank both great players.
The most annoying thing for me was with 4-5 minutes to go, in possession on the half way line and we kick the ball away!
Lastly, winning is important but at the moment Borthwick, maybe under too much pressure to win is struggling to decide what type of game England should play.
At Tigers he had a season where the results were woeful but he found out which players could play in a style that for a season and a half proved successful.
He now has Ireland and France to select a team for the future as no one will expect England to win either!

[Old Hob]

I recognise that it has been a difficult week for Jamie George with the loss of his mother but I would contrast his behaviour with that of Finn Russell. At every break he was chatting with the ref, even sharing a water bottle with him at one point. Not remonstrating, just clarifying a few things...