LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - Crocodile McKeller: Men at Work

[No6_Flanker]

No I wouldn't agree with any of that. Three successive Head Coaches have seen him day in, day out for 3 seasons now and have only picked him in the league or Europe in an emergency. In that time, there has been plenty of times when Cole has not been around. Richardson has also been given plenty of games in the PRC over those 3 years, not once has he really put down such a marker that really puts him forward for selection in league or european action regularly. Ultimately, that tells a story and I don't think he can feel hard done by, for the lack of minutes unlike other players.

Against Ealing he had Wells and Hatherall behind him, just like he did against Quins, which is a premiership standard second row. The back row was also premiership standard with Hanro, Rogerson and Cracknell. And even in the front row his fellow prop was Van Wyk who is premiership standard. The fact he struggled against a decent premiership standard LH, when surrounded by fellow Premiership standard forwards on his own side, is not a great endorsement for keeping him. Indeed it is probably the best argument for letting him go.

He is ultimately a squad player that has shown he is probably not Premiership standard, and is now potentially blocking the development of one of our development players. Time to let him go to the Championship and play regularly there, and develop one of our own.

Great, let’s agree to disagree, enjoy the England game!

[AViewFromLe2]

No I wouldn't agree with any of that. Three successive Head Coaches have seen him day in, day out for 3 seasons now and have only picked him in the league or Europe in an emergency. In that time, there has been plenty of times when Cole has not been around. Richardson has also been given plenty of games in the PRC over those 3 years, not once has he really put down such a marker that really puts him forward for selection in league or european action regularly. Ultimately, that tells a story and I don't think he can feel hard done by, for the lack of minutes unlike other players.

Against Ealing he had Wells and Hatherall behind him, just like he did against Quins, which is a premiership standard second row. The back row was also premiership standard with Hanro, Rogerson and Cracknell. And even in the front row his fellow prop was Van Wyk who is premiership standard. The fact he struggled against a decent premiership standard LH, when surrounded by fellow Premiership standard forwards on his own side, is not a great endorsement for keeping him. Indeed it is probably the best argument for letting him go.

He is ultimately a squad player that has shown he is probably not Premiership standard, and is now potentially blocking the development of one of our development players. Time to let him go to the Championship and play regularly there, and develop one of our own.

Great, let’s agree to disagree, enjoy the England game!

Enjoy or endured?! You too pal

[RagingBull]

I'm going to get ripped apart I feel BUT Porter is a better winger or 12 than outside Centre.

IDK I'm a big fan of Porter but he just doesn't seem to have the rugby IQ for 13. For the records I want to keep Porter but I just feel that he might be better served as a starting winger (IMO played his best rugby on the wing or at 12)
Izaia Perese gives us a similar style runner to Kata but at 13, which would allow us to use Kelly at 12 more as well.
Also a slight worry that Kelly might well be having Ireland in his ear if Borthwick doesn't pick him.

Again I would like to keep Porter just I wouldn't be upset with signing another centre, guess depends on the cap situation.
Kelly and Scott are quite similar players
Kata and Perese are quite similar players
Porter as a utility
5 senior centres who give us a good mix and depth in a key area (one often neglected by us in recent history)

Cabous Eloff seems to be quite rated by aussies as well as the SA'ss who saw him come up the system with them. Plays LH and TH aswell.

Also granted this is Fissler and he will be paid to get clicks so keep that in mind with all his rumours. A lot will be 2+2 = 5

[Jimmy Skitz]

I'm going to get ripped apart I feel BUT Porter is a better winger or 12 than outside Centre.

IDK I'm a big fan of Porter but he just doesn't seem to have the rugby IQ for 13. For the records I want to keep Porter but I just feel that he might be better served as a starting winger (IMO played his best rugby on the wing or at 12)
Izaia Perese gives us a similar style runner to Kata but at 13, which would allow us to use Kelly at 12 more as well.
Also a slight worry that Kelly might well be having Ireland in his ear if Borthwick doesn't pick him.

Cabous Eloff seems to be quite rated by aussies as well as the SA'ss who saw him come up the system with them. Plays LH and TH aswell.

Also granted this is Fissler and he will be paid to get clicks so keep that in mind with all his rumours. A lot will be 2+2 = 5

Porter came as a utility back and ended up settling at centre due to others injuries IIRC so you may have a point there. On Kelly when did he last get capped? not sure he can switch for another year or so can he? Also Ireland are pretty stacked there

[RagingBull]

I'm going to get ripped apart I feel BUT Porter is a better winger or 12 than outside Centre.

IDK I'm a big fan of Porter but he just doesn't seem to have the rugby IQ for 13. For the records I want to keep Porter but I just feel that he might be better served as a starting winger (IMO played his best rugby on the wing or at 12)
Izaia Perese gives us a similar style runner to Kata but at 13, which would allow us to use Kelly at 12 more as well.
Also a slight worry that Kelly might well be having Ireland in his ear if Borthwick doesn't pick him.

Cabous Eloff seems to be quite rated by aussies as well as the SA'ss who saw him come up the system with them. Plays LH and TH aswell.

Also granted this is Fissler and he will be paid to get clicks so keep that in mind with all his rumours. A lot will be 2+2 = 5

Porter came as a utility back and ended up settling at centre due to others injuries IIRC so you may have a point there. On Kelly when did he last get capped? not sure he can switch for another year or so can he? Also Ireland are pretty stacked there

I don't know if I would say Ireland are pretty stacked at 12 majority of centres are now in their 30's so space could open up soon (Aki is prob holding out for one more lions), and I feel 12 he has a few chances to try and work his way up in the provinces.

I'm not saying he will or Ireland have looked at him. But it's something i'm aware of.

[Jimmy Skitz]

I'm going to get ripped apart I feel BUT Porter is a better winger or 12 than outside Centre.

IDK I'm a big fan of Porter but he just doesn't seem to have the rugby IQ for 13. For the records I want to keep Porter but I just feel that he might be better served as a starting winger (IMO played his best rugby on the wing or at 12)
Izaia Perese gives us a similar style runner to Kata but at 13, which would allow us to use Kelly at 12 more as well.
Also a slight worry that Kelly might well be having Ireland in his ear if Borthwick doesn't pick him.

Cabous Eloff seems to be quite rated by aussies as well as the SA'ss who saw him come up the system with them. Plays LH and TH aswell.

Also granted this is Fissler and he will be paid to get clicks so keep that in mind with all his rumours. A lot will be 2+2 = 5

Porter came as a utility back and ended up settling at centre due to others injuries IIRC so you may have a point there. On Kelly when did he last get capped? not sure he can switch for another year or so can he? Also Ireland are pretty stacked there

I don't know if I would say Ireland are pretty stacked at 12 majority of centres are now in their 30's so space could open up soon (Aki is prob holding out for one more lions), and I feel 12 he has a few chances to try and work his way up in the provinces.

I'm not saying he will or Ireland have looked at him. But it's something i'm aware of.

well if he announces he's leaving soon we may get our answer, hope not he's finally looking like he's over his injuries and finding form

[TigerFeetSteve]

On Richardson.

He was our 4th choice Loosehead and 4th choice Tighthead going into this season.

That is a very useful talent to have covering both sides. Essentially means we only need 7 senior props not 8 in the squad.

However we have Van Der Flier and Miell both developing rapidly, and wouldn't be surprised if Van Der Flier has moved up into that 4th choice slot at LH.

Also with both De Bruin (heavily) and Eloff (lightly) linked to us we may well have the ability to cover both sides elsewhere in the squad, but even so, I see it that we need 4 options for prem games at minimum (ie one injured one on international duty and two in a matchday 23)

LH
Starting - new signing/Cronin
2nd Choice - Whitcombe
3rd Choice - new signing(De Bruin?)/Van Wyk
4th Choice - Van Der Flier


TH
Starting - Heyes
2nd Choice - Cole
3rd Choice - Hurd
4th Choice - Hoyt (if ready)


So basically Richardson is (IMO) not a shot at either starting or 3rd choice LH really. So only way for me he remains in the squad is as that 4th TH slot, if the club deem Hoyt not ready yet. However if Eloff or De Bruin is coming then the club can "back" Hoyt a bit as the 4th choice TH but knowing they have a safety net in both De Bruin or Eloff being able to fill that slot.

[Old Hob]

So you want our scrum back 5 to be made up of 3 locks a 6 and a 7. Certainly an interesting opinion not one I share.
As I’m sure you know this isn’t junior rugby where players can just swap positions there is a hell of a lot more to it

Agreed, it's not junior rugby, it's professional, full-time job rugby. Intensive training? Available; Mentoring? available; Role models? available.
Centre to hooker? Available - Tom Youngs

Martin to No 8? Perfectly possible, and Jasper to help the transition.

[longlivethecrumbie]

Am I right in thinking that George Martin has started at 8 a couple of times? (During the Borthwick era)

[Tiglon]

Moving positions is rare once a player gets to the level that Steward or Martin have.

Tom Youngs was after failing to make it as a centre.

That said, a 4/6 moving to 8 is not bonkers, and a lot easier than centre to hooker - there isn't much technical difference, or a specific skill that one has and the other doesn't, just positional nuances etc. I wouldn't be shocked to see Martin move to 8, considering that he seems to be about 5kg heavier every time I see him play. He has played there at least a couple of times for Tigers, but I don't think he was outstanding by any stretch.

Liebenberg has been tried at 8 and he lacks the dynamism. He's an out and out 6 in my opinion, perfectly suited to that role. Please leave him there!

Likewise, Chessum is an out and out lock who can do a bit of 6 to a good level if he really has to. He's established himself as one of the first names on the England team sheet, He's staying where he is.

Kata might make a decent 8 though...

[Rugbygramps]

I would agree anything is possible particularly given the conditioning of the modern lock, imo it’s not for Martin and interesting that he came straight on at lock for England yesterday with Chessum moving to 6.
I mean old King Cole played a lot of rugby at 8 until he was 18, the way he was running round the pitch yesterday maybe he should move back

[sam16111986]

Liebenberg has been tried at 8 and he lacks the dynamism. He's an out and out 6 in my opinion, perfectly suited to that role. Please leave him there!

I disagree. I think Liebenburg has been decent at 8 for us. Before this season he's generally been the back up option behind first Taufua and then Weise. With the right 6 he could definitely drop back into that role for us but it would need to be a big physical 6.

[Tiglon]

Liebenberg has been tried at 8 and he lacks the dynamism. He's an out and out 6 in my opinion, perfectly suited to that role. Please leave him there!

I disagree. I think Liebenburg has been decent at 8 for us. Before this season he's generally been the back up option behind first Taufua and then Weise. With the right 6 he could definitely drop back into that role for us but it would need to be a big physical 6.

That's not entirely true.

Last season Hanro played the first 4 games at 8. The next 4 where Wiese was missing we had Cracknell at 8. Hanro played one more game at 8 that season, when Cracknell was injured.

The season before, again, he was cover at 8 for the first 4 matches, then Van Staden, then Martin and Chessum (both when we had most of the back row injured including Hanro), then finally Sean Jansen was preferred to Hanro at 8.

Before that, the likes of Guy Thompson and Kalamafoni were played at 8 ahead of Hanro.

I'm not saying Hanro has been poor at 8, he is decent, but he's exceptional at 6 so I'd rather see him stay there.

[Rugbygramps]

Liebenberg is an exceptional player. Imo his best position is 6 and the team functions better when he plays there.
Earlier comments re Porter if you look at his highlights reel his best finishes have come when he’s played either 12 or on the wing. 2 finishes one at Sale and one in the crumbie corner spring to mind

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

13 is difficult position to get right, you are a defensive linchpin & integral in attack, England don't have any international quality 13's at present let alone Tigers, Tigers recently had recently an International quality 13 on their books, but we let him go.