Trailfinders a sad indictment of rugby

[GETHIN EXILE]

Newcastle could be currently held up as an example, would they win a playoff against Ealing or any other Championship side who comes top? What is wrong is that false restrictions prevents competition for them to try. We don't want another London Welsh, but to deny a winner from taking their place is wrong on every angle you look at it. Wasps don't don't have a ground or a team, nor do London Irish. Worcester don't have a team, yet it seems most would accept them all back without winning a game, why?

London Welsh were forced to play miles away from their supporter base and having had to go through a legal challenge to gain promotion the first time were unable to strengthen their playing squad. If Ealing were allowed promotion without having to move ground then there is a good chance that they would have a strong enough side to compete in the premiership. We go on about how few first team regulars we had in our team but Ealing were marshalled by their 3rd choice fly half. If you look at their current squad they have more players waiting in the wings who have recent top level experience.

[Hot_Charlie]

You didn't find anything about their partnerships with local grassroots clubs? Partnerships with Aussie Shute Shield teams? Partnership with Brunel University? Their development of the women's game? Presentation of a phased development plan to support their Premiership application, rather than a short-termist ground share?

You didn't find any of that?

Which they know doesn't fit the criteria required for entry to the Premiership. They can whine all they like but they aren't willing to bite the bullet.

Who in their right mind would agree to build a 10,000 seater stadium when there's no way they're getting more than 5,000 fans for the next year or two?

Ok, let's approach this from a different angle:

If they are actually serious about promotion, and eventually fulfilling the long term requirements where is the planning permission. Take it a step back even: where are the conceptual plans that could allow them to seat more people and expand capacity?

That's why I'm very dubious and cynical about the actual integrity of their ambitions.

[Offside]

Planning permission was declined. Not in my back yard.

[Rugbygramps]

It is unfortunate that without the Premiership agreeing to accept 1 or 2 more sides by altering their regulations we will never know.
If an agreement could be reached for Ealing and Cornish Pirates, for example to join the premiership with their current packages and transparent plans to grow in the future, without relying solely on a wealthy benefactor, it could only be a good thing, f they accepted short term pain for long term gain.
Imo ring fencing of the premiership would have to remain for at least 3 more seasons as the one thing that could seriously damage these clubs is the yo yo effect.

Gethinexile I take your point, but Dan Lancaster was a player a number of posters wanted Tigers to sign, and there is a reason why recent premiership players are no longer current premiership players. Premiership level you need at least 2 players of minimum premiership standard to compete, more in specialist positions

[Rugbygramps]

Planning permission was declined. Not in my back yard.

Do you know that for certain or was there an issue with the planning application. I don’t know the answer but how hard have they worked with the local council to submit a suitable application

[Hot_Charlie]

Planning permission was declined. Not in my back yard.

Do you know that for certain or was there an issue with the planning application. I don’t know the answer but how hard have they worked with the local council to submit a suitable application

I'd never seen that they'd had it declined. It'd be interesting to see the applications though.

The regulations do say you can have a smaller capacity but need to have planning permission (and a building plan) in place and the funding to complete the work - both Sarries and Exeter used this recently IIRC when they redeveloped sections of their grounds. As it was reported last year, neither Doncaster or Ealing supplied any evidence to support these courses of action (or evidence of groundshare agreements).

[Hot_Charlie]

Planning permission was declined. Not in my back yard.

Do you know that for certain or was there an issue with the planning application. I don’t know the answer but how hard have they worked with the local council to submit a suitable application

I've just looked. There isn't a planning application for anything beyond the "pavilion"/clubhouse and the current temporary stands. Certainly nothing, even in the historical planning applications for the site (all 61 of the) relating to an expansion to anywhere near the required capacity.

[Not a jock]

How about killing two birds with one stone? Merge Wasps and Ealing and call it Weeping?

[Hot_Charlie]

How about killing two birds with one stone? Merge Wasps and Ealing and call it Weeping?

[Tiglon]

We all seem happy to have sacrificial lambs in the 6N and world cup, with the logic that these teams won't improve if they aren't exposed to top tier opposition - is the same not true for Championship clubs?

If we're happy to wait 20+ years for Italy to be consistently competitive in the 6N, it doesn't seem unreasonable to give an ambitious club like Ealing a season or 2.

This seems kind of hypocritical to me. We will open up the possibility of promotion to let Ealing in as they make a lot of noise but we will ring fence it again immediately after to stop anyone else. Promotion and relegation simply doesn’t work in rugby atm. The clubs are not sustainable enough to survive the turmoil each year, the the championship just isn’t competitive. Having a quaint ground that holds 3000 but makes us all feel nostalgic for the amateur days is not going to help the league in anyway meaningful measure

I'm not being hypocritical, I'm not saying only allow Ealing in and no one else, they are just the club that this discussion is about.

[johnthegriff]

Promotion and relationships be a factor at all.levels and at all times, jeopardy will mean relegation battles and meaningful games the chance of promotion will mean the same. If say Ealing and Doncaster were added to the Premiership but to bring numbers back to a desirable 12 and the following season one team was relegated and say Coventry or Pirates promoted I believe the relegated team would bring an element of Premiership quality to the Championship and strengthen that division.

[Rugbygramps]

Promotion and relationships be a factor at all.levels and at all times, jeopardy will mean relegation battles and meaningful games the chance of promotion will mean the same. If say Ealing and Doncaster were added to the Premiership but to bring numbers back to a desirable 12 and the following season one team was relegated and say Coventry or Pirates promoted I believe the relegated team would bring an element of Premiership quality to the Championship and strengthen that division.

Or which is also possible, they will struggle to survive given the financial demands of the premiership and their best players will leave having tasted the game at a higher level.
Imo that’s why the premiership should be ring fenced for 3 seasons if it does expand to allow these clubs a fair chance.
The financial pressures and player churn decreases as you move down the leagues

[LE18]

Promotion and relationships be a factor at all.levels and at all times, jeopardy will mean relegation battles and meaningful games the chance of promotion will mean the same. If say Ealing and Doncaster were added to the Premiership but to bring numbers back to a desirable 12 and the following season one team was relegated and say Coventry or Pirates promoted I believe the relegated team would bring an element of Premiership quality to the Championship and strengthen that division.

Or which is also possible, they will struggle to survive given the financial demands of the premiership and their best players will leave having tasted the game at a higher level.
Imo that’s why the premiership should be ring fenced for 3 seasons if it does expand to allow these clubs a fair chance.
The financial pressures and player churn decreases as you move down the leagues

Infastructure is so expensive, ring fencing is necessary to protect newly promoted clubs, to encourage them to build etc etc, otherwise it would be totally pointless spending money on stands etc only to be relegated after 1 year.
I come back to my previous suggestion re Ealing and Irish, merge and play at Brentford, build a joint fan base and if this works then Ealing can spend and develop their ground taking time to do it.

[tigerburnie]

Ring fencing has killed four clubs, how many more are you planning on letting go to the wall, fans will not follow a game where there is little or no jeopardy, protectionism has failed to work anywhere.

[Rugbygramps]

Ring fencing has killed four clubs, how many more are you planning on letting go to the wall, fans will not follow a game where there is little or no jeopardy, protectionism has failed to work anywhere.

Is it the ring fencing that’s killed them or the need to spend to compete. I’m unsure
From your comments you obviously don’t feel the yo yo effect to be a factor

Edit: I am genuinely unsure how ring fencing contributed to the demise of any of the 4 clubs so would be grateful if you could explain that to me