AViewFromLe2 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:12 pm
I appreciate the quality of the opposition on the day was not the best, but i do hark back to the Prem Cup game in September at home to Newcastle as the perfect example of what McKellar ball looks like. Forwards running onto the ball at speed, getting over the gainline, generating quick ball for backs who were playing with good running lines and attacking shape that created gaps out wide and through the middle for us to exploit.
We have regressed badly since then. We have the players currently to play that way, which is probably why the club are probably going to keep recruitment minimal and on a one in, one out basis - it just needs coaching and given how shapeless we are becoming, I'm not sure how much focus is being put on the attack during the week.
So what your saying is that when we had a complete coaching set up we were going the right way and now one is missing (since the start of the prem season) its stalled... i agree.
Agreed, but the question remains, did the club think that Dickens would only be away periodically so someone else could pick up the attacking reins ? As the situation evolves, you surely re-assess and there comes a time where the evidence on the field is overwhelming, it's clearly not working and a tough decision has to be made - bring someone else in maybe ? Assuming that there is someone suitable of course. All swings and roundabouts.
From my perspective, I see Northampton, Bath and Quins tearing it up and just wish we could be half as good in the backs.
2 points raised. Firstly without knowing exactly what the situation is the clubs hands could be tied by employment legislation.
The 3 teams you mention Bath Saints and Quins have all had coaching solidity over the past few seasons, yes there has been the odd chance but the central core of senior coaches has stayed the same, or in some cases enhanced, Saints defence, Danny Wilson to Quins, Lee Blackett to Bath. For whatever reason, let’s not reopen that can of worms, we haven’t had that luxury.
It was mentioned during the Bath match yesterday that during the 21/22 season they had finished bottom of the league and shipped over 100 tries
For me it will be interesting to see how Bath and Saints in particular restart after the 6 nations break with the players they will be missing
I think the 6 Nations break will allow us to regroup and to evolve our systems, without the urgency of the next game. Let’s see how we do when we resume and then pass judgement.
Cheering on the Tigers in Detroit.
Previously a slower, shorter, less good looking version of Tom Croft.
No6_Flanker wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:43 pm
I think the 6 Nations break will allow us to regroup and to evolve our systems, without the urgency of the next game. Let’s see how we do when we resume and then pass judgement.
AViewFromLe2 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:12 pm
I appreciate the quality of the opposition on the day was not the best, but i do hark back to the Prem Cup game in September at home to Newcastle as the perfect example of what McKellar ball looks like. Forwards running onto the ball at speed, getting over the gainline, generating quick ball for backs who were playing with good running lines and attacking shape that created gaps out wide and through the middle for us to exploit.
We have regressed badly since then. We have the players currently to play that way, which is probably why the club are probably going to keep recruitment minimal and on a one in, one out basis - it just needs coaching and given how shapeless we are becoming, I'm not sure how much focus is being put on the attack during the week.
So what your saying is that when we had a complete coaching set up we were going the right way and now one is missing (since the start of the prem season) its stalled... i agree.
Agreed, but the question remains, did the club think that Dickens would only be away periodically so someone else could pick up the attacking reins ? As the situation evolves, you surely re-assess and there comes a time where the evidence on the field is overwhelming, it's clearly not working and a tough decision has to be made - bring someone else in maybe ? Assuming that there is someone suitable of course. All swings and roundabouts.
From my perspective, I see Northampton, Bath and Quins tearing it up and just wish we could be half as good in the backs.
I suspect finance must come into this as employment law. If Tigers had the money surely they would go out and get someone to work with the team- maybe we cannot afford to solve the situation. A bit like with Borthwick and England- we had to wait a long time to get him because the RFU wouldn’t let him go until his contract was up.
McKellar will have someone he wants but are we just treading water until we can afford for him to come?
Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:32 pm
2 points raised. Firstly without knowing exactly what the situation is the clubs hands could be tied by employment legislation.
The 3 teams you mention Bath Saints and Quins have all had coaching solidity over the past few seasons, yes there has been the odd chance but the central core of senior coaches has stayed the same, or in some cases enhanced, Saints defence, Danny Wilson to Quins, Lee Blackett to Bath. For whatever reason, let’s not reopen that can of worms, we haven’t had that luxury.
It was mentioned during the Bath match yesterday that during the 21/22 season they had finished bottom of the league and shipped over 100 tries
For me it will be interesting to see how Bath and Saints in particular restart after the 6 nations break with the players they will be missing
Cannot say Danny Wilson at Quins as he was with us under Wiggy.
Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:32 pm
2 points raised. Firstly without knowing exactly what the situation is the clubs hands could be tied by employment legislation.
The 3 teams you mention Bath Saints and Quins have all had coaching solidity over the past few seasons, yes there has been the odd chance but the central core of senior coaches has stayed the same, or in some cases enhanced, Saints defence, Danny Wilson to Quins, Lee Blackett to Bath. For whatever reason, let’s not reopen that can of worms, we haven’t had that luxury.
It was mentioned during the Bath match yesterday that during the 21/22 season they had finished bottom of the league and shipped over 100 tries
For me it will be interesting to see how Bath and Saints in particular restart after the 6 nations break with the players they will be missing
Cannot say Danny Wilson at Quins as he was with us under Wiggy.
And he’s joined them this season thus enhancing their coaching team which is what I said. He was also only with us as a consultant as his deal to Quins had already been agreed
No6_Flanker wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:43 pm
I think the 6 Nations break will allow us to regroup and to evolve our systems, without the urgency of the next game. Let’s see how we do when we resume and then pass judgement.
What about them Lions
Let’s goooooo!
Cheering on the Tigers in Detroit.
Previously a slower, shorter, less good looking version of Tom Croft.
Rumours that Juan Martin Gonzalez is on a cut price, one-year deal with Sarries so could be available for next season. He'd be a terrific addition IMO, if McKellar is open to using Hanro more at 8.
ABClub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 8:10 pm
Rumours that Juan Martin Gonzalez is on a cut price, one-year deal with Sarries so could be available for next season. He'd be a terrific addition IMO, if McKellar is open to using Hanro more at 8.
He would be a great signing, but I've never been impressed with Hanro at 8 - he only thrives at 6 IMO.
ABClub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 8:10 pm
Rumours that Juan Martin Gonzalez is on a cut price, one-year deal with Sarries so could be available for next season. He'd be a terrific addition IMO, if McKellar is open to using Hanro more at 8.
He would be a great signing, but I've never been impressed with Hanro at 8 - he only thrives at 6 IMO.
ABClub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 8:10 pm
Rumours that Juan Martin Gonzalez is on a cut price, one-year deal with Sarries so could be available for next season. He'd be a terrific addition IMO, if McKellar is open to using Hanro more at 8.
JMG was playing 8 for the Pumas wasn't he. Really good all rounder though we probably would need to look at getting some more carrying work from our props in the tight. JMG would offer more soft skills and jackle work to the backrow.
I can see there being a lot of interest in his signature though.
ABClub wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:31 pm
That's absolutely my view. Try to add more physical players and carriers throughout the pack. Rather than replace Wiese like for like. Which we aren't doing, as even if there was one available, we'd be outbid the same as Jasper.
Jason Jenkins - There are flaws in his game but that means he won't require RG Snyman type wages. He's a monster in contact though.
Vaea Fifita - Strong ball carrier, plays lock/6/8. If we signed a Wainwright type 8 then someone like Fifita could open up having Hanro and Fifita in the back row to beef things up if required against certain opposition. It would also provide more contingency for if Martin, Chess and Henderson aren't available in the row.
Sione Vailanu - Not a perfect player but carries hard and wouldn't break the bank. As a tactical option when needed someone like that would be useful.
Biyi Alo - A massive TH who carries well. Montoya is the only prominent ball carrier in the front row currently.
Our use of the ball when we have it, is for me the biggest issue. We are to obvious, particularly in our forward carries. There's very little to no interplay between our forwards and it just makes it easy for the opposition to number up.
Adding MORE POWER doesn't feel like the answer. It's not a bad idea but in isolation I don't seeing it being a golden bullet.
Personally I'd like us to look for an 8 with a broader skillset. Ideally someone who can truck it up but also act as that forward playmaker style player. Currently Montoya has the best hands in the forwards by a distance. Having a couple of ball carriers who can legitimately mix it up both carry and also bring on another forward on an angle. The 8 replacement then doesn't need to be a Jasper style menace ball in hand because with any luck we can build up an attack where he isn't having to crash into two or three defenders on every carry. Having an attack coach to drill this into the players is also paramount.
Leinster's carriers aren't individually more devastating than Weise. Their attack and the interplay between them often send the ball carriers into a half gap or a solo tackler. Just gives them momentum and playing with momentum makes life a lot easier.
Now Vaea Fifita might well fit that role but the last rumour I heard was that he wanted out of Scarlets to head back to New Zealand.
No point in having more playmakers when no one can either give them space to make the playmaking or run off it.
Leinster may not have someone of Wiese carrying ability but the other 7 forwards are pretty much all better carriers nearly.
Like lets be real who is going to make bigger impact running of a playmaker?
Cronin, Heyes, Wells, Reffell
or
Porter, Furlong, McCarthy, JVDF
They create their momentum by having 8 forwards who can at least make the gainline with every carry nearly.
