LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - Crocodile McKeller: Men at Work

[LekkerTigers]

If Porter does go, I really wouldn't mind us trying to get Sam Spink from the Rebels. Previously at Wasps, he's a good looking prospect at 12 or 13 (he's primarily played 13). He's big, quick and loves a carry. Would be a more lateral signing as he's not a big flashy international, but I reckon he'd impress.

[sam16111986]

Spink signed a two year deal so could potentially be available. He was unlucky to be breaking through as Wasps went under. Wasn't a flashy player so got lost a bit in amongst all the players needing new clubs. The move to WA seems to have gone well for him.

He's a 13 first and foremost which we could do with given Kelly and Kata are both 12s ideally though Kelly has played well these last two weeks. Starting to refind his best form even at 13.

[longlivethecrumbie]

Andrea Pinchen has confirmed in an interview with the BBC that while she/the club opposes the increase in the cap for next season we will spend up to it: Tigers to spend full cap despite making cuts - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68019780

[Tigers86asw]

Andrea Pinchen has confirmed in an interview with the BBC that while she/the club opposes the increase in the cap for next season we will spend up to it: Tigers to spend full cap despite making cuts - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68019780

As usual she spoke absolute sense.

[RagingBull]

We won't find another Wiese so we will need to find more carrying/attacking options elsewhere.

Leinster's Doris isn't the biggest guy in the world certainly not Wiese level of scary. But the whole team carries well.

I would rank the current pack carrying options when fit (Trying to keep it relative to others in their positions)
S tier - Wiese, Martin, Henderson,
A tier - Chessum, Hanro, Montoya, Dolly, Hatherall
B tier - Whitcombe, Cracknell,
C tier - Reffell, Rogerson,
D tier - Cronin, Van Wyk, Heyes, Hurd, Clare,
E tier - Cole, Wells, Carter,

You compare our pack's to others and it does feel like we need more options.
Wiese going we need a A tier 8 option or above and really we need a prop that can carry at a top rate. You look at the damage that the likes of Furlong did in the carry. Just having that extra runner who can bring in one more player makes is so helpful for space.
I feel with our prop teams don't really need to man mark them because they know someone will cover it.

If I was to rank the backs as carrying options
S tier - JVP, Kata, OHC
A tier - Watson (When fit)
B tier - Whiteley, Pollard, Porter, Scott, Steward, Simmons (IMO could be A tier if stays fit)
C tier - Youngs, Shillcock, Kelly
D tier - Brown, Bassett, Cokanasiga

[ABClub]

That's absolutely my view. Try to add more physical players and carriers throughout the pack. Rather than replace Wiese like for like. Which we aren't doing, as even if there was one available, we'd be outbid the same as Jasper.

Jason Jenkins - There are flaws in his game but that means he won't require RG Snyman type wages. He's a monster in contact though.

Vaea Fifita - Strong ball carrier, plays lock/6/8. If we signed a Wainwright type 8 then someone like Fifita could open up having Hanro and Fifita in the back row to beef things up if required against certain opposition. It would also provide more contingency for if Martin, Chess and Henderson aren't available in the row.

Sione Vailanu - Not a perfect player but carries hard and wouldn't break the bank. As a tactical option when needed someone like that would be useful.

Biyi Alo - A massive TH who carries well. Montoya is the only prominent ball carrier in the front row currently.

[JGT57]

We have several world class players. Doubtless we will tell ourselves that we should consider other quality players.
However, we are not a team.
Leinster and LaR showed us the way.
However, we are comparing apples and pears.

We can’t carp on about inequality- we know the job from the start. In all honesty, we can’t compete at this level under our current regime (RFU, rather than Tigers)

[sam16111986]

That's absolutely my view. Try to add more physical players and carriers throughout the pack. Rather than replace Wiese like for like. Which we aren't doing, as even if there was one available, we'd be outbid the same as Jasper.

Jason Jenkins - There are flaws in his game but that means he won't require RG Snyman type wages. He's a monster in contact though.

Vaea Fifita - Strong ball carrier, plays lock/6/8. If we signed a Wainwright type 8 then someone like Fifita could open up having Hanro and Fifita in the back row to beef things up if required against certain opposition. It would also provide more contingency for if Martin, Chess and Henderson aren't available in the row.

Sione Vailanu - Not a perfect player but carries hard and wouldn't break the bank. As a tactical option when needed someone like that would be useful.

Biyi Alo - A massive TH who carries well. Montoya is the only prominent ball carrier in the front row currently.

Our use of the ball when we have it, is for me the biggest issue. We are to obvious, particularly in our forward carries. There's very little to no interplay between our forwards and it just makes it easy for the opposition to number up.

Adding MORE POWER doesn't feel like the answer. It's not a bad idea but in isolation I don't seeing it being a golden bullet.

Personally I'd like us to look for an 8 with a broader skillset. Ideally someone who can truck it up but also act as that forward playmaker style player. Currently Montoya has the best hands in the forwards by a distance. Having a couple of ball carriers who can legitimately mix it up both carry and also bring on another forward on an angle. The 8 replacement then doesn't need to be a Jasper style menace ball in hand because with any luck we can build up an attack where he isn't having to crash into two or three defenders on every carry. Having an attack coach to drill this into the players is also paramount.

Leinster's carriers aren't individually more devastating than Weise. Their attack and the interplay between them often send the ball carriers into a half gap or a solo tackler. Just gives them momentum and playing with momentum makes life a lot easier.

Now Vaea Fifita might well fit that role but the last rumour I heard was that he wanted out of Scarlets to head back to New Zealand.

[RunTigerRun]

I’d love to see us develop into more than a 1 trick pony. I think we have the players to play a wide game, but as soon as our forwards are not on top, we lose all momentum, structure and creativity.

Other teams have the ability to make space, rather than require space to run into. After watching us last year when Wiggy got some of our attack moving, some of our newer players at their previous clubs and spells through this season, we have the guys to do it. I think it needs confidence in us to keep trying but also someone in the coaching team to say yes, go for it (be that an attack coach or DMK or Smith or whoever).

When we have a fully fit team that will undoubtedly help. There are shoot from DMK and his team, I think we aren’t a million miles off, but the potential is huge.

[trendylfj]

Looking at the actual performances over the weekend, IMHO the talk about "ballcarriers" in our team compared to others has to recognise the fact that many of the top clubs move the ball much quicker and to "ballcarriers" who are moving at speed when they take the ball. Thus have a better chance of breaking the defensive line which has less time to get set. Please don't get me wrong, I love Wiese but he was not the usual threat that he is this weekend - why???? - our ball from most aspects of play was slow after the first 30 minutes. Taking the ball standing still is never going to break defences these days. We do have players who could do the job of breaking the line but they have to have a better opportunity of doing so and that starts at the breakdown.

[Pellsey]

Looking at the actual performances over the weekend, IMHO the talk about "ballcarriers" in our team compared to others has to recognise the fact that many of the top clubs move the ball much quicker and to "ballcarriers" who are moving at speed when they take the ball. Thus have a better chance of breaking the defensive line which has less time to get set. Please don't get me wrong, I love Wiese but he was not the usual threat that he is this weekend - why???? - our ball from most aspects of play was slow after the first 30 minutes. Taking the ball standing still is never going to break defences these days. We do have players who could do the job of breaking the line but they have to have a better opportunity of doing so and that starts at the breakdown.

Completely agree. Furthermore, the lines with which our ball carriers are running are too direct, and there are often no decoy runners, so it is very easy for the defence to guess what we are doing.

[ay2oh]

One thing that the last two games has shown is that size is everything. Going forward we need a big no 8 to replace Wiese , a lump of a loose head prop and a big ball carrying centre as well as a top class backs coach.

[AViewFromLe2]

I appreciate the quality of the opposition on the day was not the best, but i do hark back to the Prem Cup game in September at home to Newcastle as the perfect example of what McKellar ball looks like. Forwards running onto the ball at speed, getting over the gainline, generating quick ball for backs who were playing with good running lines and attacking shape that created gaps out wide and through the middle for us to exploit.

We have regressed badly since then. We have the players currently to play that way, which is probably why the club are probably going to keep recruitment minimal and on a one in, one out basis - it just needs coaching and given how shapeless we are becoming, I'm not sure how much focus is being put on the attack during the week.

[GB72]

I appreciate the quality of the opposition on the day was not the best, but i do hark back to the Prem Cup game in September at home to Newcastle as the perfect example of what McKellar ball looks like. Forwards running onto the ball at speed, getting over the gainline, generating quick ball for backs who were playing with good running lines and attacking shape that created gaps out wide and through the middle for us to exploit.

We have regressed badly since then. We have the players currently to play that way, which is probably why the club are probably going to keep recruitment minimal and on a one in, one out basis - it just needs coaching and given how shapeless we are becoming, I'm not sure how much focus is being put on the attack during the week.

It is the same elephant in the room that could have a possible connections to so many threads on here from team structure, to selection to even perhaps the form of Pollard. I am not one to have a dig at the club but this is something they need to get on top of.

[PeteK]

I appreciate the quality of the opposition on the day was not the best, but i do hark back to the Prem Cup game in September at home to Newcastle as the perfect example of what McKellar ball looks like. Forwards running onto the ball at speed, getting over the gainline, generating quick ball for backs who were playing with good running lines and attacking shape that created gaps out wide and through the middle for us to exploit.

We have regressed badly since then. We have the players currently to play that way, which is probably why the club are probably going to keep recruitment minimal and on a one in, one out basis - it just needs coaching and given how shapeless we are becoming, I'm not sure how much focus is being put on the attack during the week.

So what your saying is that when we had a complete coaching set up we were going the right way and now one is missing (since the start of the prem season) its stalled... i agree.