Tigers v La Rochelle (A) - Champions Cup - Sunday 14th January 2024 - KO - 3-15pm

[sapajo]

Deservedly punished for unforgivable errors.

Big wake-up call for how far we've got to go.

No lack of effort, but being given a lesson in being ruthless.

Didnt see it live, just watched recording, all our problems to my mind came from L R power, strength, weight, even their backs, we were out muscled the whole of the game, set piece, rucks, mauls etc putting our backs under terrible pressure. When we did have a bit of momentum, against 13 men, Pollard kicks it dead, ,also we were kicking the ball away saying here you are, you are bigger and stronger than us, have another go.
I think todays game shows you have to have loads of big heavy forwards, and some backs, especially with the number of replacements, you just swap 1 for another big guy, if he runs out of steam, who is going to win you the ball and run over you.

They have a team of Auks but Leinster still beat them

[mol2]

I guess we saw the impact of the salary cap difference.

Realistically the salary cap might need doubling and the a similar rise in the club's income to compete with the French sides and Leinster.
The money just isn't there for that so decisions have to be made as to whether the cup is worth it for English clubs. Turning out weakened squads and rotating out star players suggests it's not a top priority. Adding in trips to South Africa spreads the squad thinner.

[Big Dai]

I guess we saw the impact of the salary cap difference.

Realistically the salary cap might need doubling and the a similar rise in the club's income to compete with the French sides and Leinster.
The money just isn't there for that so decisions have to be made as to whether the cup is worth it for English clubs. Turning out weakened squads and rotating out star players suggests it's not a top priority. Adding in trips to South Africa spreads the squad thinner.

+1

No point chasing a Ferrari with an MGB

[Tigerbeat]

Deservedly punished for unforgivable errors.

Big wake-up call for how far we've got to go.

No lack of effort, but being given a lesson in being ruthless.

Didnt see it live, just watched recording, all our problems to my mind came from L R power, strength, weight, even their backs, we were out muscled the whole of the game, set piece, rucks, mauls etc putting our backs under terrible pressure. When we did have a bit of momentum, against 13 men, Pollard kicks it dead, ,also we were kicking the ball away saying here you are, you are bigger and stronger than us, have another go.
I think todays game shows you have to have loads of big heavy forwards, and some backs, especially with the number of replacements, you just swap 1 for another big guy, if he runs out of steam, who is going to win you the ball and run over you.

They have a team of Auks but Leinster still beat them

Leinster beat them at a time when they were hit with many key players injured....the injured players have only returned to playing in recent weeks and the change in their results is noticeable.

[sapajo]

I guess we saw the impact of the salary cap difference.

Realistically the salary cap might need doubling and the a similar rise in the club's income to compete with the French sides and Leinster.
The money just isn't there for that so decisions have to be made as to whether the cup is worth it for English clubs. Turning out weakened squads and rotating out star players suggests it's not a top priority. Adding in trips to South Africa spreads the squad thinner.

+1

No point chasing a Ferrari with an MGB

More like a Reliant Robin

[Old Hob]

I guess we saw the impact of the salary cap difference.

Realistically the salary cap might need doubling and the a similar rise in the club's income to compete with the French sides and Leinster.
The money just isn't there for that so decisions have to be made as to whether the cup is worth it for English clubs. Turning out weakened squads and rotating out star players suggests it's not a top priority. Adding in trips to South Africa spreads the squad thinner.

Two of our star players came on. It didn't turn out a lot better.

[Tigers86asw]

We are not going to attack any better until we get quicker ball away from the breakdown. It is a huge issue for us.

[longlivethecrumbie]

We are not going to attack any better until we get quicker ball away from the breakdown. It is a huge issue for us.

We were getting quick ball for about the first 10 minutes or so, after that, it was a struggle and with their big lumps in the pack we were having to commit too many to the breakdown and then not having enough big men to (try to) punch holes in the La Rochelle defence.

[KiwiTig]

They were awesome
A different level
Critical moment was Pollard’s mixed kick
Cole looked like a dinosaur today and I felt for him
They were just better all round.

[No6_Flanker]

We've become too predictable with how we use Kata, too.

Kelly played a lot better when Scott came on. Surely it’s worth giving that partnership a run over the next few games?

[Tigersunited]

Brace as a "Sir" has been hopeless for as long as I have seen him, he picks a side then refs the other off the park.

The obsession with quoting Tigers DNA as forward dominance is just boring now...it wasn't the Tigers I started watching.

As for Vesty he has the right sort of Tigers DNA (3rd generation) but we let him go, why would he come back now for anything less than the top job. The last competent attack coach we had was Mauger.

Some of this lack of attacking ability lies at Borthwicks door he was (& arguably isn't) interested in a rounded 15 man game.

Borthwick was perfectly happy to play expansively he just only liked to do it in the opposition third of the pitch unless we'd spotted something on the analysis.

Chasing an expensive backline saw us spend silly money on the likes of Toomua. A terrible move for us.

For me the issue we have currently is that our backrow options are lacking a little subtlety and skill. Weise is explosive so gets away with it and in Reffell and Liebenburg we do have some great skills. When they aren't there we have Hatherall, Cracknell and Rogerson who are all hard, physical blokes with good work rates but soft skills and acceleration are lacking. We need to promote Ilione more or acquire someone else with more rounded skills.

Actually having an attack coach would help as well.

An attack coach would help although I’m sure we have one standing in, fact is they will coach the head coaches game plan, so it’s difficult to assess how much difference it would make.
Today was quite crushing, we were not the sum of our parts and it’s the 3rd time this season our team has gone missing - expect a big response next weekend, win or lose I expect we will turn up.

[Robespierre]

I guess we saw the impact of the salary cap difference.

Realistically the salary cap might need doubling and the a similar rise in the club's income to compete with the French sides and Leinster.
The money just isn't there for that so decisions have to be made as to whether the cup is worth it for English clubs. Turning out weakened squads and rotating out star players suggests it's not a top priority. Adding in trips to South Africa spreads the squad thinner.

+1

No point chasing a Ferrari with an MGB

More like a Reliant Robin

Three wheels on my wagon…….!!

[Robespierre]

Maybe the funereal performance was due to the team wearing black? Those shirts should be consigned to the bin, pdq!

[sam16111986]

Brace as a "Sir" has been hopeless for as long as I have seen him, he picks a side then refs the other off the park.

The obsession with quoting Tigers DNA as forward dominance is just boring now...it wasn't the Tigers I started watching.

As for Vesty he has the right sort of Tigers DNA (3rd generation) but we let him go, why would he come back now for anything less than the top job. The last competent attack coach we had was Mauger.

Some of this lack of attacking ability lies at Borthwicks door he was (& arguably isn't) interested in a rounded 15 man game.

Borthwick was perfectly happy to play expansively he just only liked to do it in the opposition third of the pitch unless we'd spotted something on the analysis.

Chasing an expensive backline saw us spend silly money on the likes of Toomua. A terrible move for us.

For me the issue we have currently is that our backrow options are lacking a little subtlety and skill. Weise is explosive so gets away with it and in Reffell and Liebenburg we do have some great skills. When they aren't there we have Hatherall, Cracknell and Rogerson who are all hard, physical blokes with good work rates but soft skills and acceleration are lacking. We need to promote Ilione more or acquire someone else with more rounded skills.

Actually having an attack coach would help as well.

An attack coach would help although I’m sure we have one standing in, fact is they will coach the head coaches game plan, so it’s difficult to assess how much difference it would make.
Today was quite crushing, we were not the sum of our parts and it’s the 3rd time this season our team has gone missing - expect a big response next weekend, win or lose I expect we will turn up.

Having a stand in attack coach who has other responsibilities isn't the same as having a dedicated and experienced attack coach.

We're looking to play ball in hand more than we have in the last couple of seasons but the lack of subtly and options mean that we aren't getting as much joy as we'd like.

[kk20gb30]

We lost to twice over Euro Champs who proved physically and are financially more powerful.
The manner of defeat was disconcerting - but who was expecting to go there and Win ?
Questions , justifiable ? Yep
Concerns/Issues ? Yep

But I still say its not a reason for suicide nor the end of the world..

The league is our bread and butter - for me always a priority (though deplore getting hammered by anyone anywhere) lets try get our house in order there.The time to judge or cast aspersions is seasons end and/or when Dan McKellar has who and what he wants in place.
Can do without too many bad days though 'tween times