Tigers v Stade Francais (A) - Champions Cup - Sunday 17th December 2023 - KO:5-30pm

[fentiger]

In an ideal world, Henderson would not have picked up an injury so we could rest Chessum this weekend. Equally, in hindsight, we should have rested Hanro for Newcastle so we could have played Rogerson at 6, with Illione on the bench, but we are where we are now on those.

McKellar also has to be mindful of the fact we are still struggling for cohesion, introducing too many changes may be great for player welfare but bad for cohesion, especially with loads of untried combinations.

In short, who would be a HC?!

As has been said elsewhere McKellar doesn't seem to favour heavy rotation. I think that's preferable, equally there are several players such as Hanro who, I think, desperately need a break. As you say who would be in those shoes!
Just like when Borthwick was here we need to #IDWT

[Rugbygramps]

It’s interesting with Liebenberg as you say he should need a rest, but there are some players that just always want to be on the pitch, Montoya and Wiese are like that and Hanro could too.
Also for him he had a shocker against Stormers, especially that dummy, so he may want to get back out there asap

[TigerFeetSteve]

The current confirmed injury list is Dolly, Clare, Porter, Cracknell, JVP, Henderson, Scott and possibly Wiese so some may come back into consideration earlier than i have anticipated.

Quick question on this, has Clare been confirmed injured by the club at all or is that your contacts?

Also think both Simmons and Cokanasiga are both confirmed injured

[AViewFromLe2]

The current confirmed injury list is Dolly, Clare, Porter, Cracknell, JVP, Henderson, Scott and possibly Wiese so some may come back into consideration earlier than i have anticipated.

Quick question on this, has Clare been confirmed injured by the club at all or is that your contacts?

Also think both Simmons and Cokanasiga are both confirmed injured

Through the club mate. They have now started giving the media a list of players unavailable through injury when they give the press the team release. If you take a look at John Wiffen's twitter, he posted a photo on Friday of the latest version. Simmons and Cokanasiga are not on it, so the implication being is that they are now fit i would say.

[Tiglon]

Only the club will know who needs resting and who doesn't. It's always interesting to speculate, but we really dont know who needs a rest and who doesnt.
There's also a couple of months off in the new year for anyone who needs it.

It's only what 26(?) maximum meaningful club games in the season now, surely guys as fit as Hanro can manage that many, notwithstanding injuries of course.

I would think non-6N internationals will be on a similar number, so I don't see any reason why they desperately need a rest. It's potentially a different matter for the 6N boys.

In short, only the conditioning team at the club will know who needs a rest, and you can't be scared to play players in meaningful games because of the potential of injuries. Stade is a big game and IMO should be treated as such.

[TigerFeetSteve]

The current confirmed injury list is Dolly, Clare, Porter, Cracknell, JVP, Henderson, Scott and possibly Wiese so some may come back into consideration earlier than i have anticipated.

Quick question on this, has Clare been confirmed injured by the club at all or is that your contacts?

Also think both Simmons and Cokanasiga are both confirmed injured

Through the club mate. They have now started giving the media a list of players unavailable through injury when they give the press the team release. If you take a look at John Wiffen's twitter, he posted a photo on Friday of the latest version. Simmons and Cokanasiga are not on it, so the implication being is that they are now fit i would say.

Cheers, missed that one

[LE18]

Really struggling with the concept of not taking Europe seriously, especially after the great result on Sunday. Beating Stormers now means we probably only need one more win to qualify, and if we do beat Stade, then it possibly opens up finishing in the top 2 in the pool and a home R16 game, and even more ambitiously a home QF if we were to finish top in this pool. Whilst that sounds fanciful, two of Stade, Stormers and La Rochelle could be winless after the first two games depending on how results land. Beating Stade provides us with an awesome opportunity to progress in this competition, I don't believe we should turn that down. Relying on beating Leinster at home and not taking the away games seriously, is too big a risk, and would really undermine the great achievement of last Sunday.

I also don't understand the mentality of why we should not take Europe seriously. If it is too big a distraction to our league hopes, then why did we enter it in the first place? We should ask to either not enter or always go into the Challenge Cup if it is too big of an inconvenience for us.

It also makes it harder to recruit elite World Class players if our message is that we're only bothered about the league. Good luck trying to get Jasper to stay for another season if you tell him that. Elite players want to win things, and beat the best. If we aspire to be an elite club then we should act like an elite club, and that means trying to win Europe and not backing out because it sounds too tricky. Good luck trying to sign elite players if our message is that the league takes precedence or we're not fussed by Europe. Our Head Coach, OHC, and numerous other players have all said in the media that they want to win this competition - they would not want to play here if our ambitions did not match theirs.

Our most famous victories have come in this competition and in circumstances where things are against us. In 06/07 we lost the first game at home to Munster, we were told we faced an uphill battle to progress, but we got stuck into it and ended up with one of our most famous nights at Thormond Park - using the logic of some people on here, then that would not have happened as we would have given up after the first game and played our youngsters throughout the group games.

What happens if we were to get an easy pool, and favourable R16 and QF fixtures, but then had to play Leinster and then probably another heavy hitter in the final, would we back out at the semi and play a weakened side as it sounds too hard? No of course not, so why should we do that now? You've got to play the best teams at some point so why not take it seriously.

It is also massively disrespectful to our fans who spends thousands of pounds to travel to France to not play a strong side. It would be pretty gutting if loads of our lot went out there, only for us to not reward them by playing a weakened side.

McKellar can do what he wants, it's his call after all. And if he does play a mix and match side and we still win, then fair play to him and the players selected, but that would be too much of a risk for me given we have made a great start. Not taking Europe seriously to only concentrate on the league, does not sit with the values and philosophies of this club which is to be best at all we do.

Agree 100% Like I keep saying the higher we finish in the league it gets us into Europe, if Europe is not a priority then finish bottom of the league. I know what I want, sucess in both and you dont get it unless you go for it.

[markharbtiger]

Really struggling with the concept of not taking Europe seriously, especially after the great result on Sunday. Beating Stormers now means we probably only need one more win to qualify, and if we do beat Stade, then it possibly opens up finishing in the top 2 in the pool and a home R16 game, and even more ambitiously a home QF if we were to finish top in this pool. Whilst that sounds fanciful, two of Stade, Stormers and La Rochelle could be winless after the first two games depending on how results land. Beating Stade provides us with an awesome opportunity to progress in this competition, I don't believe we should turn that down. Relying on beating Leinster at home and not taking the away games seriously, is too big a risk, and would really undermine the great achievement of last Sunday.

I also don't understand the mentality of why we should not take Europe seriously. If it is too big a distraction to our league hopes, then why did we enter it in the first place? We should ask to either not enter or always go into the Challenge Cup if it is too big of an inconvenience for us.

It also makes it harder to recruit elite World Class players if our message is that we're only bothered about the league. Good luck trying to get Jasper to stay for another season if you tell him that. Elite players want to win things, and beat the best. If we aspire to be an elite club then we should act like an elite club, and that means trying to win Europe and not backing out because it sounds too tricky. Good luck trying to sign elite players if our message is that the league takes precedence or we're not fussed by Europe. Our Head Coach, OHC, and numerous other players have all said in the media that they want to win this competition - they would not want to play here if our ambitions did not match theirs.

Our most famous victories have come in this competition and in circumstances where things are against us. In 06/07 we lost the first game at home to Munster, we were told we faced an uphill battle to progress, but we got stuck into it and ended up with one of our most famous nights at Thormond Park - using the logic of some people on here, then that would not have happened as we would have given up after the first game and played our youngsters throughout the group games.

What happens if we were to get an easy pool, and favourable R16 and QF fixtures, but then had to play Leinster and then probably another heavy hitter in the final, would we back out at the semi and play a weakened side as it sounds too hard? No of course not, so why should we do that now? You've got to play the best teams at some point so why not take it seriously.

It is also massively disrespectful to our fans who spends thousands of pounds to travel to France to not play a strong side. It would be pretty gutting if loads of our lot went out there, only for us to not reward them by playing a weakened side.

McKellar can do what he wants, it's his call after all. And if he does play a mix and match side and we still win, then fair play to him and the players selected, but that would be too much of a risk for me given we have made a great start. Not taking Europe seriously to only concentrate on the league, does not sit with the values and philosophies of this club which is to be best at all we do.

Agree 100% Like I keep saying the higher we finish in the league it gets us into Europe, if Europe is not a priority then finish bottom of the league. I know what I want, sucess in both and you dont get it unless you go for it.

Whilst I think that it's great to see such positivity, on the basis of our performances so far this season, I'm not sure I would set our sights quite so high. I am not convinced we are (yet) in the same class as the teams at the very top in Europe. However, I think we could well contend the premiership title.
But, everyone has opinions and thankfully it's not my job to manage team players, team players' expectations, and expectations of the club management!
Regardless, we'll all be behind whoever wears the jersey.

[Ian Cant]

Agreed. I did say in my post that being realistic we’ve more chance of winning the Premiership and if we are going to do well in Europe then we will have to beat Leinster and LaRochelle. Lose to Stade then Europe isn’t over: lose to Exeter and Bath and there will need to be an incredible run to get into the top 4.
I believe if we have most of our first choice players fit then we can beat anyone though I thought that last season and look what happened v Leinster!

[longlivethecrumbie]

It’s interesting with Liebenberg as you say he should need a rest, but there are some players that just always want to be on the pitch, Montoya and Wiese are like that and Hanro could too.
Also for him he had a shocker against Stormers, especially that dummy, so he may want to get back out there asap

I may be going out on a limb here, but, I think that may be the worst game I think he's had for us. His consistency level is insane, which makes games like that stick out.

[Offside]

I think our league position will dictate that the team travelling will be changed but may allow some returning players to get meaningful time. The Premiership is our home competition, not just a gateway to europe and will probably be the focus of year 1 of the DMck strategy and we are behind in that currently. I personally think we have more chance currently away to SF than at home to Leinster though. We have already chosen to miss put on a home semi final in the Prem cup so we do not seem to be joined up with team and commercial considerations. Probably best that is the case though.

[Rugbygramps]

It’s interesting with Liebenberg as you say he should need a rest, but there are some players that just always want to be on the pitch, Montoya and Wiese are like that and Hanro could too.
Also for him he had a shocker against Stormers, especially that dummy, so he may want to get back out there asap

I may be going out on a limb here, but, I think that may be the worst game I think he's had for us. His consistency level is insane, which makes games like that stick out.

I would agree but as you say he is usually at least an 8 out of 10 every game so those drops are more noticeable

[markharbtiger]

I think our league position will dictate that the team travelling will be changed but may allow some returning players to get meaningful time. The Premiership is our home competition, not just a gateway to europe and will probably be the focus of year 1 of the DMck strategy and we are behind in that currently. I personally think we have more chance currently away to SF than at home to Leinster though. We have already chosen to miss put on a home semi final in the Prem cup so we do not seem to be joined up with team and commercial considerations. Probably best that is the case though.

I agree with all of that. Obviously we don't know what the targets are in year 1. But it seems McKellar values the Euro competition highly.
I guess I would say there is no point in having depth in a squad if you don't rotate the players. Injuries of course limit options. But these competitions are more endurance and not a sprint. I think an obvious swap might be to drop Pollard and Wiese to the bench and swap in Shillcock and A.N. Other (Hatherall?). But there are a number of more junior players: Ilione in particular but perhaps also Chessum jr, Cusick etc who could do with more game time at the highest level. More expert eyes than mine will know if they are ready.

[CrumblingTerrace]

Some rotation is easier than others, where the backup players are in good form.

Wells, Shilcock and Brown could come into the team and I'd still he confident they'd give strong performances.

[fortysix]

It would be an utter disgrace to the Fans and History of Leicester Tigers if we didnt send our very best squad to Stade. An insult.