Tigers v Quins (H) - Premiership - Saturday 11th November 2023 KO: 15:05

[TigerFeetSteve]

Tbh,at the moment I’m hoping Oz come in for him and he changes his mind!

But in reality who would we get to replace him?

The dugout would probably do a better job at present

Do we really want rid of a guy who's had less than a week with a full squad?

[mightymouse]

We are missing Martin in our defence.
I have sung this lads virtues for a couple of years now . When he hits people they go backwards .. the world saw that in that semi final and arguably if he and Cole had stayed on till the final whistle England could have won.. on Saturday I don’t think we made one offensive tackle all game . They made yards in every carry, because our defensive was too static and not aggressive enough.
In our carries the reverse was the case.
I’d like to see our strongest front row out to start
Cronin, Montoya and Cole .. to get early scrum penalties and gain field position. Martin and either Henderson or Chessum ( they are similar players as someone else pointed out)
Refel has to come in to compete at the breakdown .. Evans took us to the cleaners in that department. Jasper needs to get fit fast .. which leaves the 6 position. Hanro is a great player (although no on field captain) however I think we have to get Hatherall on the field early off the bench to add another ball carrying option.
Tbe sooner JVP is back the better. Bens slow pass and crabbing across tbe field has just got worse over the years and I’m not sure you can just pick someone based on a box kick .. although we and England have done for years and then wonder why the backs don’t function!

[fentiger]

Interesting about Jaspers fitness, it was noted on here a couple of months back that he had 'put some timber on'! I wonder if he was one of those players that Aled needed to keep a strict eye on?

[TigerFeetSteve]

Interesting about Jaspers fitness, it was noted on here a couple of months back that he had 'put some timber on'! I wonder if he was one of those players that Aled needed to keep a strict eye on?

More likely that SA knew they didn't need 80min out of him much so wanted explosive impact like his carry off the scrum in the final, rather than endurance

[TigerCam]

But in reality who would we get to replace him?

The dugout would probably do a better job at present

Do we really want rid of a guy who's had less than a week with a full squad?

No, DM needs time and space to sort through what has been a jumbled start to the Tigers season. Coming in on the back of SB and team departure, consistency is needed. Next weekend will be the acid test to see where the Tigers actually are. WIP IMO.

[kk20gb30]

Probably talking about next season!

I guess he may have been given a free hit this season just hope that is not the case.

Tbh,at the moment I’m hoping Oz come in for him and he changes his mind!

+1

Lets be honest here...no knee jerk comments either.....
The world cup absentees, the shortened season et al are no shocks or surprises...
The Club - as has every other club - had time to prepare (properly) and mitigate for the scenario...
Thus far we have been dreadful.
Points conceded and defence beyond reproach, lacklustre in attack.
One can't hide from the truth....
Neither can the man in charge

[ay2oh]

I guess he may have been given a free hit this season just hope that is not the case.

Tbh,at the moment I’m hoping Oz come in for him and he changes his mind!

+1

Lets be honest here...no knee jerk comments either.....
The world cup absentees, the shortened season et al are no shocks or surprises...
The Club - as has every other club - had time to prepare (properly) and mitigate for the scenario...
Thus far we have been dreadful.
Points conceded and defence beyond reproach, lacklustre in attack.
One can't hide from the truth....
Neither can the man in charge

Don’t see the logic of your argument. If any club in any sport had two thirds of their first team missing they would struggle. How can you mitigate for missing players with a salary cap in place ? If we are still bottom in March then I’d agree but not after one game with an almost full squad

[Pellsey]

The first season with SB was hardly amazing. Give McKellar a chance!

IF the performances have not improved by Feb / March, then maybe reconsider, but it is hardly fair after 5 games, especially with having 13 or so players missing. This does not really excuse basic errors, but this is also not 100% McKellar's fault.

[RagingBull]

You can hardly mitigate losing
Montoya
Cole
Martin
Chessum
Reffell
Wiese
JVP
Youngs
Pollard
Watson
Steward

Really especially with a salary cap. Even more annoying when 7 are academy products.
Saracens didn't really mitigate it any better than us, they just have a system already in place that the RWC returnees can slot in without any changes.

[ourla]

Some good thoughts/opinions in the thread. For me, a bit negative, and a bit of Prem League football mentality. DM only been in the job a short time and a disrupted time with RWC and injuries. So I think some slack should be given. The likes of Saracens, Sale, Chiefs, even Quins are well oiled machines, that have had continuity of coaching and playing staff compared to us. But even then, as pointed out, two drops close to the line ended great try scoring opportunities. And if we'd got 5 points (which could easily have happened) things would look a little different.

I personally started the season with more hope than expectation, given the circs. For sure, the Saints game is magnified and indeed every game that goes by without a win, will magnify the pressure. But I don't see any logic in pressing the panic buttons right now.

[kk20gb30]

Tbh,at the moment I’m hoping Oz come in for him and he changes his mind!

+1

Lets be honest here...no knee jerk comments either.....
The world cup absentees, the shortened season et al are no shocks or surprises...
The Club - as has every other club - had time to prepare (properly) and mitigate for the scenario...
Thus far we have been dreadful.
Points conceded and defence beyond reproach, lacklustre in attack.
One can't hide from the truth....
Neither can the man in charge

Don’t see the logic of your argument. If any club in any sport had two thirds of their first team missing they would struggle. How can you mitigate for missing players with a salary cap in place ? If we are still bottom in March then I’d agree but not after one game with an almost full squad

The logic in the argument is based on what I/We have seen...
Tell me our defence is up to scratch ?
Tell me if our attack is potent ?
Tell me if we are effective as a team ? Whatever team selected thus far ?

Yes , cut some slack.Indeed.Agree.
We will win games because of our personnel , undoubtedly.
We will get stronger when our first team return but that does not cover the undoubted deficiencies shown so far.....
Take a look at the table and points conceded....
Then tell me if its good enough.
Believe me, I've witnessed the bad and the good at Welford Road in over 50 years and this does not inspire confidence.
Ether we have vastly overestimated our strength and resource over this period (criminal) or there is a more underlying issue.
Time will tell. I hope I'm wrong - but I believe what I see and not what I'm told to

[PeteK]

Im just seeing this as due to no relegation its going to be another Borthwick season, treat it as a long preseason trying combos etc and push for next year.

[Tigerbeat]

This was always going to be a difficult season with the World Cup and players away with their respective countries. The players will have been under contract so constraints on what was available in the salary cap to bring in more players. The internationals have only just returned to the Club with 4 league games played without their availability, The less affected clubs have made headway and gained league points.......Tigers have been handicapped up to now but with the return of key players and some injuries I have confidence that performances and results will come on the pitch. Whether this will be enough to get top 4 (still mathematically possible) I do not know, but McKeller must be given time with the whole squad available to him..........not in panic mode yet.
There have been signs that he has wanted to play a more expansive game and the back line has not been a settled one.......give it a few games and they should be defensively aware of each other and link up in open play. Pollard gives some good direction during the games.
The forwards need Montoya (for his captaincy and throwing) and Refell (breakdown) to challenge the opposition.

[Tiglon]

Fans asked for a more expansive game, but call "sack the coach" when it doesn't instantly click? And we wonder why Borthwick plays it safe...

Some clubs are setup to do well during international periods, others (like us) are setup to do well at the business end of the season. We just need to be in contention at that point.

If we want to do better during the World Cup, we need to get rid of some of our international stars - anyone in favour of that? I didn't think so....

I'm not sure what the expectations were of those suggesting McKellar should leave, but the question of whether a Head Coach should be dismissed comes down to what will be best for the club in the future, not what's happened in the past. Do we really think it's sensible to label the current regime a failure after a handful of games? Would it be helpful to change coaches, again, at this point in the season? Both answers are "no" in my opinion.

[kk20gb30]

This was always going to be a difficult season with the World Cup and players away with their respective countries. The players will have been under contract so constraints on what was available in the salary cap to bring in more players. The internationals have only just returned to the Club with 4 league games played without their availability, The less affected clubs have made headway and gained league points.......Tigers have been handicapped up to now but with the return of key players and some injuries I have confidence that performances and results will come on the pitch. Whether this will be enough to get top 4 (still mathematically possible) I do not know, but McKeller must be given time with the whole squad available to him..........not in panic mode yet.
There have been signs that he has wanted to play a more expansive game and the back line has not been a settled one.......give it a few games and they should be defensively aware of each other and link up in open play. Pollard gives some good direction during the games.
The forwards need Montoya (for his captaincy and throwing) and Refell (breakdown) to challenge the opposition.

Every season has its difficulties...
The World Cup and all it brings/brought though did not suddenly appear from nowhere....
and whilst much of what you say has substance neither is it 'the way, the truth and the light'..
Again I would say, Simply use you eyes and tell me what you see and not what you either want or believe...