LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - Crocodile McKeller: Men at Work

[johnthegriff]

Previous World Cups have seen the returning England players integrated into the Tigers team in time for December European matches, not always succesfully. I could not understand why we signed Williams but he has played well and provides experienced cover for lock and back row,, we do have some very promising young.locks, I have no qualms about Louis Chessum.in the Premiership but others may need another season to develop. With an experienced player it is not just about his contribution on a match day but also what he brings to the training ground. If the price is right Williams may well.be worth retaining until.the end of the season.

[Rugbygramps]

Previous World Cups have seen the returning England players integrated into the Tigers team in time for December European matches, not always succesfully. I could not understand why we signed Williams but he has played well and provides experienced cover for lock and back row,, we do have some very promising young.locks, I have no qualms about Louis Chessum.in the Premiership but others may need another season to develop. With an experienced player it is not just about his contribution on a match day but also what he brings to the training ground. If the price is right Williams may well.be worth retaining until.the end of the season.

Just for comparison the final in 2019 was played on November 2nd, but was in a different hemisphere which may make a difference

[Hot_Charlie]

The other issue with Williams is that once RWC os over what’s he going to do until March. The youngsters can go out on loan to keep match fit but could you really do that with Williams.
He’s done a short term job, the budget can be better spent elsewhere

Depends on post RWC stand down (basically til Christmas - there or thereabouts - for the players in his position given the increased likelihood of England reaching a semi-final and the current England 23?), injuries etc. He could end up quite busy depending on what falls out of the next few weeks.

Sorry but where are you getting Christmas from.

How long is the mandated rest period for the England squad members? Last World Cup the squad members were playing couple of weeks but considering they've generally only had 4 weeks off between the end of last season and the start of the RWC prep, are they going to be under an obligation to have a longer stand down given the most recent agreement was decided post the last RWC IIRC? Is the 10 week protocol allowed to be split and if so how? Is there another arrangement in place?

[AViewFromLe2]

They were chatting on the Rolling Maul pod about the fact Mike Williams is on a short term contract.

They talked about whether we should extend him.

So post World Cup our 2nd row ranks look like this

Chessum O
Martin
Henderson
Wells
Carter
Chessum L
Manz T
Carmichael

For me Williams has come in and done well (better than anticipated), but for me, we have the playing depth there once we get Chessum and Martin back and so even though he's not done badly I'd say thanks and all the best.

Just to provide some context behind why i would be happy for Williams to stay on, it's not just for this season but next too.

Ollie Chessum, Martin & Henderson are clearly going to be international regulars, so we can know we will lose them. From what i have seen, i think its is fair to assume that Lewis Chessum is being geared up for being in the first team reckoning, so we would have Wells, Carter and Chessum as the 3 senior locks plus the two young lads. In theory that is enough.....

However, Carter is 34 and is nearer the end of his career. Manz is 22 and hasn't had much of a run in the first team and Carmichael is at least a year off physically from being able to play at senior level. I obviously want both to make it, but at this stage it looks more likely that Manz does not make the grade, and we have to accept we cannot take everyone through. It may well be that Manz & Carmichael do not make it, and if so that strength in depth does not look so strong any longer. That also does not take into account possible injuries.

I'm not going to be gutted if we don't keep Williams on, however I do think there would be merit in doing so, as whilst we do have strength in depth at lock, IMO it is not as rock solid as we may think.

To answer the question on Williams' contract, he told the media in the press conference last week he was here until October.

[Scott1]

I mean all depends on things.
1. What price is he, reality is he will be very very cheap
2. What condition are Chessum and Martin going to be in post RWC
3. Williams also covers 6

For me I'm very happy with the squad and only really want to see a starting LH brought in.

Wings Watson is important in terms of knowing where we stand.
But Simmons I feel could have a breakout season.

Kata isn't going to be playing Rugby World cup level with use so him having a poor game against one of the RWC favourites isn't an issue at all for me. I would be surprised if we are in a position to scoop up any rugby world cup bolters. Even pro D2 clubs can outspend prem clubs for these players. (Also prob be more fellow Spanish speakers with them).

Kata is proven at Prem, European and Super rugby level. All matters for me. Otherwise why do we even have players who are not good enough to make RWC squads if that is the level we judge upon?

I'm super happy with Kata at 12 too,wing at a push. Gives us a different option in MF. Can't remember how his performances at 13 are though RB,can you? Agree about Simmons, said it earlier on the thread. Or maybe another thread

[Rugbygramps]

Depends on post RWC stand down (basically til Christmas - there or thereabouts - for the players in his position given the increased likelihood of England reaching a semi-final and the current England 23?), injuries etc. He could end up quite busy depending on what falls out of the next few weeks.

Sorry but where are you getting Christmas from.

How long is the mandated rest period for the England squad members? Last World Cup the squad members were playing couple of weeks but considering they've generally only had 4 weeks off between the end of last season and the start of the RWC prep, are they going to be under an obligation to have a longer stand down given the most recent agreement was decided post the last RWC IIRC? Is the 10 week protocol allowed to be split and if so how? Is there another arrangement in place?

I’m not sure there is a mandatory period because it is so player dependent. Some players if we use Reffell for example who is possibly 3rd string 7 for Wales will have a lighter work load than if he’d stayed at Tigers. Apologies if that isn’t correct

[Rugbygramps]

Viewfromle2 I think it would be a big mistake to keep him past this season development players would be a year on and that much more experienced. I accept that we don’t know the impact he’s had on the squad in a positive way

[Hot_Charlie]

I’m not sure there is a mandatory period because it is so player dependent. Some players if we use Reffell for example who is possibly 3rd string 7 for Wales will have a lighter work load than if he’d stayed at Tigers. Apologies if that isn’t correct

It only effects the England players too I believe.

[Hot_Charlie]

To answer the question on Williams' contract, he told the media in the press conference last week he was here until October.

Excellent. More concrete than unofficial rumour then.

Personally my main issue with Williams is he still bounces into contact and ends up going down very quickly, just as he did the first time around. He's not a carrier in the same mould as Wiese, Martin etc.

[Tigersunited]

I suspect these issues are mostly governed by the salary cap.

[anz3001]

To answer the question on Williams' contract, he told the media in the press conference last week he was here until October.

Excellent. More concrete than unofficial rumour then.

Personally my main issue with Williams is he still bounces into contact and ends up going down very quickly, just as he did the first time around. He's not a carrier in the same mould as Wiese, Martin etc.

He also said he had something sorted for after, which he was excited about.

[anz3001]

𝗠𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝗪𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗶𝗮𝗺𝘀 on announcements coming this week..

"I've got a few things lined up that will be announced in the next few days.

"I'm here until October and I'm going to give it my all and play as much as I can.

"𝗚𝗼 𝗼𝗳𝗳 𝗼𝗻 𝗮 𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗵 𝗮𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻!"

[TigerFeetSteve]

𝗠𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝗪𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗶𝗮𝗺𝘀 on announcements coming this week..

"I've got a few things lined up that will be announced in the next few days.

"I'm here until October and I'm going to give it my all and play as much as I can.

"𝗚𝗼 𝗼𝗳𝗳 𝗼𝗻 𝗮 𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗵 𝗮𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻!"

Hopefully that means some announcements are coming soon!

[Scott1]

𝗠𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝗪𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗶𝗮𝗺𝘀 on announcements coming this week..

"I've got a few things lined up that will be announced in the next few days.

"I'm here until October and I'm going to give it my all and play as much as I can.

"𝗚𝗼 𝗼𝗳𝗳 𝗼𝗻 𝗮 𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗵 𝗮𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻!"

Hopefully that means some announcements are coming soon!

I'd forgot we still hadn't had them yet! Is it normal in a RWC year?

[Hot_Charlie]

𝗠𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝗪𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗶𝗮𝗺𝘀 on announcements coming this week..

"I've got a few things lined up that will be announced in the next few days.

"I'm here until October and I'm going to give it my all and play as much as I can.

"𝗚𝗼 𝗼𝗳𝗳 𝗼𝗻 𝗮 𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗵 𝗮𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻!"

Hopefully that means some announcements are coming soon!

I'd forgot we still hadn't had them yet! Is it normal in a RWC year?

Maybe we don't know who we are actually announcing yet!