Rugby World Cup warm up games

[fentiger]

Farrell has proven, yet again, to be a liability. We've all heard the nonsense spouted about 'he's a great leader... yada yada...'.
Well, great leaders lead by example, the example he sets is a poor one. We all know what a leader Fordy is, virtually single handedly keeping Tigers in the Premiership, winning us too many games to mention, whilst always conducting himself impeccably. If Farrell had remained on the pitch yesterday England would have lost.
this is the opening Borthwick needs to get himself out of the hole he dug when naming Farrell as Captain, we'll see.....

[Scott1]

Ireland game (fitness/injury permitting)
Genge
George
Cole
Chessum
Itoje
Lawes
Willis
Earl
Youngs
Ford
Daly
Manu
Marchant
Watson
Steward

Marler,Dan,Stewart,Martin,Curry,Care,Smith,Malins

Agree with all except perhaps giving Marchant a game from the bench and starting either Lawrence at 13 to test the Manu Lawrence pairing (which outside Ford could be fun!) or starting Daly at 13 and giving Malins, Watson Steward a go in the back 3 (though I’d rather it was Murley but that’s another convo!)

Give Lawes or Genge the captaincy and hope they can surprise Ireland enough to get a decent performance in.

Yes,good shouts!

[Grannyman]

Any risk of Stewards yellow being upgraded and also banned?

[teds]

The irony for me being that Farrell is playing some of the best rugby of his career. Nonetheless it was another straight red offence and a six match ban could reasonably see him out of the World Cup squad. Henry Slade is the ideal fill-in.

[Scott1]

Any risk of Stewards yellow being upgraded and also banned?

No,not for me. Yellow was the right call

[ay2oh]

Just cannot see why Farrell is so highly thought of by numerous England coaches. Ford offers far more in terms of game management and is more vocal with the players around him. In days gone by Farrell was worth his place due to his kicking ability but Ford has improved this aspect of his game beyond recognition and is far more of an attacking threat with his passing ability..

[Old Hob]

Amidst all the gloom, I think back to SB's early days at Tigers. We were poor, lacked a cutting edge and lost games. He had a plan; fitness, then defence, then attack. I think he's on the same track now. People saw what they wanted/expected to see yesterday. JvP started briskly but everyone called him ponderous, there was less kicking and more passes; Ben was also lively. The demise of Farrell may accelerate this process.

[Scott1]

Amidst all the gloom, I think back to SB's early days at Tigers. We were poor, lacked a cutting edge and lost games. He had a plan; fitness, then defence, then attack. I think he's on the same track now. People saw what they wanted/expected to see yesterday. JvP started briskly but everyone called him ponderous, there was less kicking and more passes; Ben was also lively. The demise of Farrell may accelerate this process.

I’d do think Farrell is the problem. Don’t get me wrong he made around 4 fantastic kicks early yesterday and actually broke the line once. But it’s nothing Ford wouldn’t or couldn’t have done. And like a stuck record again I will say that there is no better FH in world rugby better than steering a rugby team around the field

[Leicestertinytiger]

We won a GS, beat Australia 3x in their backyard and got to a WC final playing Ford / Farrell together. For me the backs always look better them two playing together. Lawrence is a 13 and is wasted somewhat inside.

Modern test matches are normally won off the kicking game. Ford / Farrell / Daly gives England that ability. Think SB was unlucky in the six nations given two of the above were injured. Steward’s kicking out of hand is actually pretty poor, something he needs to work on.

Saying all that there’s still no excuse. England were awful. If he rated Billy and Earl so much then why didn’t he start them in the six nations? Lack of planning and learning as you go. A luxury you don’t have as an international coach.

[Old Hob]

We won a GS, beat Australia 3x in their backyard and got to a WC final playing Ford / Farrell together. For me the backs always look better them two playing together. Lawrence is a 13 and is wasted somewhat inside.

Modern test matches are normally won off the kicking game. Ford / Farrell / Daly gives England that ability. Think SB was unlucky in the six nations given two of the above were injured. Steward’s kicking out of hand is actually pretty poor, something he needs to work on.

Saying all that there’s still no excuse. England were awful. If he rated Billy and Earl so much then why didn’t he start them in the six nations? Lack of planning and learning as you go. A luxury you don’t have as an international coach.

I thought that Billy was just out of rehab?

[Big Dai]

So.......
It's the fat bloke with a hangover once more. I REALLY need to find better things to do with my retirement than drinking beer with friends and watching rugby.....I was supposed to be watching cricket but got led astray.

We've picked three fly halves. A hoof it up in the air merchant who can't tackle properly, a bit of an aloof general and a flash Harry.

I thought control, rather than aimless kicking, was the order of the day when Ford went to 10. I'd prefer Ford as my go to 10 with Smith on the bench to add zip if required. So send the general on first and have flash Harry as back up.

But who, in Farrell's absence, is the back up general? No one comes to mind.

P.S. Apologies to Earl and Daly. I thought they were OK yesterday.

[aslongaswebeatsaints]

Currently looking to see if I have some Scottish ancestry hidden away…..

My concern is that as a usually excited England fan it’s all a bit…..meh. And I find myself excited instead to see what Argentina and Scotland can do to close the gap with the top teams while Wales and England languish with a brand of rugby that is so yesterday. I will cheer England
on - but the excitement will be elsewhere I fear.

But I don’t blame SB. IMHO simply hasn’t had enough time. It took 18 months+ at Tigers. England will come good under him, it’s only warm up games after all, and you can see what he’s trying to achieve - the sort that Saracens tried to do this season - but I just can’t see enough time to do it this World Cup. It’s a punchers chance, nothing more. Luckily for him, progress on our side of draw may make England look better than they are, even with a defeat against Argentina.

That blame lies firmly at the feet of the RFU (and to a lesser degree PRU) and their litany of failure and incompetence of which the cowardice in not sacking EJ earlier is one - and then panicking and sacking him when it was too late to do so, and perhaps it would have then been better to instead let him see the World Cup through (his specialism). RFU are, as ever, hiding away and letting their manager take the heat. It’s them that should be showing some integrity and taking the flack from rightly angry fans. Reminds me more and more of Smurf being hung out to dry in the bad all days just before SB took over.

Shame on them.

[Leicestertinytiger]

We won a GS, beat Australia 3x in their backyard and got to a WC final playing Ford / Farrell together. For me the backs always look better them two playing together. Lawrence is a 13 and is wasted somewhat inside.

Modern test matches are normally won off the kicking game. Ford / Farrell / Daly gives England that ability. Think SB was unlucky in the six nations given two of the above were injured. Steward’s kicking out of hand is actually pretty poor, something he needs to work on.

Saying all that there’s still no excuse. England were awful. If he rated Billy and Earl so much then why didn’t he start them in the six nations? Lack of planning and learning as you go. A luxury you don’t have as an international coach.

I thought that Billy was just out of rehab?

He was playing for Saracens for the entire 2023 six nations period.

[Darc Tiger]

By the way, congrats to Gengey for creeping up to 50 caps

[Scott1]

We won a GS, beat Australia 3x in their backyard and got to a WC final playing Ford / Farrell together. For me the backs always look better them two playing together. Lawrence is a 13 and is wasted somewhat inside.

Modern test matches are normally won off the kicking game. Ford / Farrell / Daly gives England that ability. Think SB was unlucky in the six nations given two of the above were injured. Steward’s kicking out of hand is actually pretty poor, something he needs to work on.

Saying all that there’s still no excuse. England were awful. If he rated Billy and Earl so much then why didn’t he start them in the six nations? Lack of planning and learning as you go. A luxury you don’t have as an international coach.

Dalys kicking out of hand was awful! One from wide that he kicked infield nearly resulted in a try. Saying that he was very good with ball in hand,his defensive tackling still worries me though and he's none existent under the high ball,actually looks like he bottles it to me