Rugby World Cup warm up games

[kpj tiger]

I think Porter was hard done by. Can't fault his work rate but never given a chance to be an attacking 12. Martin OK as was Genge. Freddie muffed 2 so, glad he's got those out of the way. And how has JvP become so slow? My optimistic side says he's slow because of poor understanding by the squad as to where they are supposed to be and that familiarity will improve it. My pessimistic side sighs, and wanders off in search of a corkscrew.

I'm convinced England coach the speed out of scrum halves

[amazing tiger]

Have to admit that performance is probably the worst I’ve ever seen England play and in recent years they’ve had some horror games! Same old problems around handling errors and discipline!

Today they seemed to have no idea what they were doing in attack it was just one dimensional with one up runners at times! Worryingly what little attack we had seems to have gone backwards!!! Quite a few players arguably played their way out of the tournament today porter and jc the main two probably!

The massive concern is we seemed to have gone backwards under Steve don’t get me wrong it’s one game and a lot of our frontline players might not have played but I don’t think anyone can sit there and say that the performance we just watched was an improvement!!!

[amazing tiger]

I think Porter was hard done by. Can't fault his work rate but never given a chance to be an attacking 12. Martin OK as was Genge. Freddie muffed 2 so, glad he's got those out of the way. And how has JvP become so slow? My optimistic side says he's slow because of poor understanding by the squad as to where they are supposed to be and that familiarity will improve it. My pessimistic side sighs, and wanders off in search of a corkscrew.

I'm convinced England coach the speed out of scrum halves

I’d argue care looked off the pace from the get go just like he did against Australia last year!

[Darc Tiger]

Thank god for the Red Roses. About the only positive force in English rugby at the moment.

[LE18]

I think Eddie Jones brought a terrible style of play to England, many clubs adapted that style, England have just spent 6 weeks perfecting all those bad habits, no enterprise, whoof it if the air, try to catch it, fancy spending all that time practising dropping the ball, falling off tackles etc etc.

The players could have had 6 weeks rest turned up today, never met each other before and played better than that, I am a great believer in if you are playing badly, go away, rest, forget those bad habits, come back fresh and you will play better. ( works well for me at golf). Have they had any time off?
Based on that 1 off performance, chances are not good but really hope it was just rusty, or tiredness, worked to death, surely we can get better. Some of those players today certainly wont be going, but there were so many bad performances. Incidentally, playing devils advocate, is Genge good enough?

[wigworth]

I think Eddie Jones brought a terrible style of play to England, many clubs adapted that style, England have just spent 6 weeks perfecting all those bad habits, no enterprise, whoof it if the air, try to catch it, fancy spending all that time practising dropping the ball, falling off tackles etc etc.

The players could have had 6 weeks rest turned up today, never met each other before and played better than that, I am a great believer in if you are playing badly, go away, rest, forget those bad habits, come back fresh and you will play better. ( works well for me at golf). Have they had any time off?
Based on that 1 off performance, chances are not good but really hope it was just rusty, or tiredness, worked to death, surely we can get better. Some of those players today certainly wont be going, but there were so many bad performances. Incidentally, playing devils advocate, is Genge good enough?

He wasn't today and to me he does not seem to do well when he is England captain.

[LE18]

I think Eddie Jones brought a terrible style of play to England, many clubs adapted that style, England have just spent 6 weeks perfecting all those bad habits, no enterprise, whoof it if the air, try to catch it, fancy spending all that time practising dropping the ball, falling off tackles etc etc.

The players could have had 6 weeks rest turned up today, never met each other before and played better than that, I am a great believer in if you are playing badly, go away, rest, forget those bad habits, come back fresh and you will play better. ( works well for me at golf). Have they had any time off?
Based on that 1 off performance, chances are not good but really hope it was just rusty, or tiredness, worked to death, surely we can get better. Some of those players today certainly wont be going, but there were so many bad performances. Incidentally, playing devils advocate, is Genge good enough?

Before anyone misreads my post, Eddie Jones brought it and left us with it!

[fentiger]

How is Neville an international level TMO.....

Indeed what's the point if the Ref still has to school her on the basic laws....

[Scott1]

I think Eddie Jones brought a terrible style of play to England, many clubs adapted that style, England have just spent 6 weeks perfecting all those bad habits, no enterprise, whoof it if the air, try to catch it, fancy spending all that time practising dropping the ball, falling off tackles etc etc.

The players could have had 6 weeks rest turned up today, never met each other before and played better than that, I am a great believer in if you are playing badly, go away, rest, forget those bad habits, come back fresh and you will play better. ( works well for me at golf). Have they had any time off?
Based on that 1 off performance, chances are not good but really hope it was just rusty, or tiredness, worked to death, surely we can get better. Some of those players today certainly wont be going, but there were so many bad performances. Incidentally, playing devils advocate, is Genge good enough?

One off performance? Almost every performance has been like that under Borths! We have actually gone backwards since Eddie. But he’s new in the job so he has to have time

[Big Dai]

A lot of broadsword and no rapier.
A distinct lack of pace
Juggernauts preferred to sports cars.

.......but that’s how Steve operates.

[Old Hob]

I think Eddie Jones brought a terrible style of play to England, many clubs adapted that style, England have just spent 6 weeks perfecting all those bad habits, no enterprise, whoof it if the air, try to catch it, fancy spending all that time practising dropping the ball, falling off tackles etc etc.

The players could have had 6 weeks rest turned up today, never met each other before and played better than that, I am a great believer in if you are playing badly, go away, rest, forget those bad habits, come back fresh and you will play better. ( works well for me at golf). Have they had any time off?
Based on that 1 off performance, chances are not good but really hope it was just rusty, or tiredness, worked to death, surely we can get better. Some of those players today certainly wont be going, but there were so many bad performances. Incidentally, playing devils advocate, is Genge good enough?

One off performance? Almost every performance has been like that under Borths! We have actually gone backwards since Eddie. But he’s new in the job so he has to have time

He has Sir Kev et al, but you are right. It didn't click right away when we won the championship and he had all the players all the time. This is my optimistic side peeking out from behind a curtain again.

[TigerFeetSteve]

I also clearly remember IBWT being banded about, even when we picked 2nd string teams vs Sarries. When we kept powder dry till the real matches that meant something.

Literally a preseason game in a lot of ways. Borthwick will know his plan from here and he will map out the progress he wants.

[fentiger]

I also clearly remember IBWT being banded about, even when we picked 2nd string teams vs Sarries. When we kept powder dry till the real matches that meant something.

Literally a preseason game in a lot of ways. Borthwick will know his plan from here and he will map out the progress he wants.

I agree, however he is also, to some degree, saddled with players who may not entirely buy into his philosophy!

[Ian Cant]

I’m grateful to Steve Borthwick and the coaches for the success they brought to Tigers, however, up until Christmas last season Tigers struggled whereas Saracens and Sale evolved to be able to play in a similar way to The All Blacks; great speed at the ruck, creative 9/10 and 12/13.
As other posters have said JVP/ Youngs and Care, if left to play their natural game snipe and look to use their pace to attack, under Borthwick they seem to be afraid to do anything other than kick.
It was interesting that Borthwick said how impressed he was with the way Care and Smith controlled the game for Quins at Welford Road! Odd, as Quins played against our 14 in the second half and should have lost at the death when ( not Quins fault) the ref didn’t spot illegal work at the last rolling maul as we went over the line.
It was the least impressive Care and Smith had been all season!
Care, Smith and Dombrant are very good attack minded players so why pick them to play a sterile game.
It was an incredibly poor international.
Learn from it, move on but please let the players decide whether to kick or run.
Look at England cricket: we’re going backwards until Bazzball: even when they lose you feel proud that at least they gave their best and entertained!

[BigDan50]

Let’s go through the players that were picked for this game and discuss the alternatives in the squad and those out of the picked squad.
15, Steward, great under the high ball, strong in the tackle but as an attacking full back doesn’t set the world on fire.
Alternative, Watson but would want him on the wing.
14, Malins, very good player cemented his place in the side.
13, Marchant, ok game, some good, some bad, worth a place in the squad.
Alternative, Lawrence, definite starter and going to be a star in the World Cup.
12, Porter, very good club player but found out today and I think he will struggle to make the squad.
Alternative, Manu, cast iron pick.
11, Cokanasiga, not a great game today but worth a squad place as on his day he can make space for others to exploit.
Alternative, Watson, no other choice, a class act.
10, Smith, another class act and better than Ford if the game needs to be broken up with a running game.
Alternative, Owen Farrell, world class player who would be first choice in any international side.
9, Danny Care, can’t pick a favourite for the scrum half spot but would take Care with the first choice between him and JVP, sadly Ben is not an international scrum half anymore.
1, Genge, first choice, not sure who could be a decent replacement.
2, Blamire and Dan, found out today, don’t think they are food enough.
Alternative, obviously George and for me I would take Dunn from Bath, very competitive and very good at the basics of hooking and line out throwing, scores a lot of tries from the rolling maul.
3, Stuart, very solid in the scrum and good in the loose, carries and tackles well, a solid performance today.
Alternative, Sinckler, a very good prop with good hands, must be first choice, sadly Dan Cole is well past his best and shouldn’t be in the frame for a place in the squad.
4, Ribbans, definite pick.
Alternative, Hill, improved the line out when he came on.
5, Martin, we all know how good a player he is but too many knock ons and missed tackles today, think he will struggle to make the squad, I hope not.
Alternative, Maro Itoje, world class, one of the best second rows in the world.
6, Ludlam, good player, worth a place in the squad.
Alternative, Willis or Courtney Lawes, both class players.
7, Pearson, stepped up today and didn’t look out of place.
Alternative, not in the squad but I would take Underhill, great at the breakdown and an awesome tackler.
8 Dombrandt, a certainty for the squad and a very good player.
Alternative, Billie Vinipola, would give us go forward and still a class act.