"Canon Arm" Technique

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Tigerbeat, Rizzo, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

TigerFeetSteve
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7413
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:23 am

"Canon Arm" Technique

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

I know there's a lot of talk about Irish illegality at the ruck, but this is a new one on me, putting arms down early as you go into contact to propel yourselves forward. I have to agree with the discussion it leaves the player's arm extremely vulnerable.

https://supersport.com/rugby/united-rug ... in-the-urc
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Old Hob
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4107
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Old Hob »

Plus, as they say on video, head on head contact. I don't know if, in open play, any law is broken; so what's the answer?
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina
Pellsey
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2163
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Luxembourg

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Pellsey »

Old Hob wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:16 pm Plus, as they say on video, head on head contact. I don't know if, in open play, any law is broken; so what's the answer?
I think changing the laws would be a good start. It is seemingly done for far less dangerous things, so why not this?
ads
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Born Leic, Live Leeds

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by ads »

Old Hob wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:16 pm I don't know if, in open play, any law is broken; so what's the answer?
This is the thing for me, are they actually breaking the laws by putting their hand on the ground going into the tackle? They kept saying they were in the video but what does it say in the laws about broken play? Is it still the case that a tackle is complete when a knee touches the ground, has that ever actually been the case or am I making that up?

It does seem a little like the SA's are trying to find ways of stopping the Irish before the WC starts though....
Grimlish
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1132
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Over the hill and far away

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Grimlish »

Surely they are ‘off feet’ as they are no longer fully supporting their body weight with their feet (the same principle is frequently applied at the breakdown). I remember it as a penalty offence to deliberately go to ground/off-feet without being tackled/to avoid being tackled. Isn’t that still the case?
Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4041
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Hot_Charlie »

Grimlish wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:08 am Surely they are ‘off feet’ as they are no longer fully supporting their body weight with their feet (the same principle is frequently applied at the breakdown). I remember it as a penalty offence to deliberately go to ground/off-feet without being tackled/to avoid being tackled. Isn’t that still the case?
Yep, off feet. So surely need to release the ball?
ads
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Born Leic, Live Leeds

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by ads »

That should be pretty easy to referee then.
Farmboy
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:03 am

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Farmboy »

Double movement would be my call because of the propulsion after the hand touching the ground
sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7055
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by sam16111986 »

As long as the knee doesn't touch the floor the tackle isn't complete.

Surely the best way to get around this is to start targeting the ball. They've got one arm on the floor so the ball is tucked under the other.
Offside
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Offside »

The problem is the the ball is under them behind the head so it is difficult to target and the are falling / scrabbling forwards with a player supporting them from behind. Outlawing the prebind and requiring rucking players to arrive on their feet would be the best option.
Grimlish
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1132
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Over the hill and far away

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Grimlish »

sam16111986 wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 12:54 pm As long as the knee doesn't touch the floor the tackle isn't complete.

Surely the best way to get around this is to start targeting the ball. They've got one arm on the floor so the ball is tucked under the other.
That assumes a tackle is being made and is the ruse being used. But if there is no tackle at the moment the hand hits the floor it can’t be complete. So other laws should apply. Deliberately going to ground still seems the main candidate to be applied in this set of circumstances.
Farmboy
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:03 am

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Farmboy »

sam16111986 wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 12:54 pm As long as the knee doesn't touch the floor the tackle isn't complete.

Surely the best way to get around this is to start targeting the ball. They've got one arm on the floor so the ball is tucked under the other.
As soon as the hand touches the ground they are "off feet" so should stop trying to propel forward. The fact is that they plan to do this lets it seem as if they quickly place the ball.
Can see the problem because WR define a tackle complete with knee down but also define off feet when any part but feet touch the ground.
Farmboy
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:03 am

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Farmboy »

Grimlish wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 1:37 pm
sam16111986 wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 12:54 pm As long as the knee doesn't touch the floor the tackle isn't complete.

Surely the best way to get around this is to start targeting the ball. They've got one arm on the floor so the ball is tucked under the other.
That assumes a tackle is being made and is the ruse being used. But if there is no tackle at the moment the hand hits the floor it can’t be complete. So other laws should apply. Deliberately going to ground still seems the main candidate to be applied in this set of circumstances.
Can't find any law against deliberately going to ground
Grimlish
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1132
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Over the hill and far away

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Grimlish »

Can't find any law against deliberately going to ground
Which is why I said it’s what I remember (from playing long ago). However the laws do say clearly that rugby is a game intended to be played on the feet.
Tykger
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:40 am

Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Tykger »

Grimlish wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:04 pm
Can't find any law against deliberately going to ground
Which is why I said it’s what I remember (from playing long ago). However the laws do say clearly that rugby is a game intended to be played on the feet.
I'm sure there was a law about voluntary tackle or something similar which was against players going to ground unopposed.....wonder why they changed it....unless my memory is wrong.
Post Reply