Pinchen vs RFU

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sapajo
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by sapajo »

I believe Borthwick is a very shrewd operator and a fiercely driven individual. He demonstrably used his time employed by Tigers not only to vastly improve the squad and rugby but to surround himself with coaches that he knew would answer his call when England come calling. I do not believe Borthwick has any regrets about what has happened since, indeed he has played a blinder from his perspective. Only time will tell if he has bitten off more that he can chew with England but as the saying goes your only as good as your team and I believe that is precisely why he has chosen via the RFU to systematically poach his assembled Tigers coaching team with scant regard to the fall out. I guess being ruthless on and off the pitch makes him a winner?
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Tigersunited
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by Tigersunited »

tigerburnie wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 3:58 pm
robwatts77 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 2:59 pm
tigerburnie wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 2:44 pm It doesn't paint Borthwick in a good light either.
Why doesn't it? He was totally honest with Tigers throughout his tenure.
"England point out that Borthwick, pictured with RFU boss Bill Sweeney, only went back to Leicester to recruit coaches he had brought to the club"

Tigers didn't stop him talking to England, but this statement doesn't make good reading, did Tigers know that the deal was pretty much all our coaching squad rather than just one person?
There was a lot of ill feeling at Bath about the way he left them, just feels like he's not been as up front as he might have been, did Tigers give Borthwick permission to come and recruit our coaches? I don't know as I wasn't in the room, but this remark printed under the picture implies something to me.
Really? I recently read Tom was coaching in the academy before SB call along and didn’t Aled start at the same time as him? Sure I read he was a GM appointment?
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Tigersunited wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 7:22 pm
tigerburnie wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 3:58 pm
robwatts77 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 2:59 pm

Why doesn't it? He was totally honest with Tigers throughout his tenure.
"England point out that Borthwick, pictured with RFU boss Bill Sweeney, only went back to Leicester to recruit coaches he had brought to the club"

Tigers didn't stop him talking to England, but this statement doesn't make good reading, did Tigers know that the deal was pretty much all our coaching squad rather than just one person?
There was a lot of ill feeling at Bath about the way he left them, just feels like he's not been as up front as he might have been, did Tigers give Borthwick permission to come and recruit our coaches? I don't know as I wasn't in the room, but this remark printed under the picture implies something to me.
Really? I recently read Tom was coaching in the academy before SB call along and didn’t Aled start at the same time as him? Sure I read he was a GM appointment?
Correct, he was at the academy, invited by Borthwick to join and support Stankovic the Boris left and he got the big job at minimal notice
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tigerburnie
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by tigerburnie »

Tigersunited wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 7:22 pm
tigerburnie wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 3:58 pm
robwatts77 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 2:59 pm

Why doesn't it? He was totally honest with Tigers throughout his tenure.
"England point out that Borthwick, pictured with RFU boss Bill Sweeney, only went back to Leicester to recruit coaches he had brought to the club"

Tigers didn't stop him talking to England, but this statement doesn't make good reading, did Tigers know that the deal was pretty much all our coaching squad rather than just one person?
There was a lot of ill feeling at Bath about the way he left them, just feels like he's not been as up front as he might have been, did Tigers give Borthwick permission to come and recruit our coaches? I don't know as I wasn't in the room, but this remark printed under the picture implies something to me.
Really? I recently read Tom was coaching in the academy before SB call along and didn’t Aled start at the same time as him? Sure I read he was a GM appointment?
Ahh the old "deliberately mis quote and totally mis direct the original theme" ploy, yes seen that many a time, indeed I might have even invented it.
You know well I mean Borthwick came to Leicester after he took the England job and recruited our coaches for England, not for Tigers. Now the newspaper does not attribute the quote to Andrea Pinchen, it merely implies in the way it was positioned in the centre of the interview and under a picture of the man she is criticising, that picture just happens to have Borthwick alongside.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by Jimmy Skitz »

as a Football fan I am used to a departing coach taking his team with him to his next job to me this is yet another example of Rugby being professional in name only.

In Football its simple most of the time, head coaches/managers have release clauses built into their contracts as do their coaches, meet the clause and you can take the coach.

Its no surprise to see Bill Sweeney act this way given the farce of the tackle height law changed he railroaded through
aslongaswebeatsaints
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by aslongaswebeatsaints »

The impact has been that I have gone from passionate England Fan to..well…meh.

As they only seem to care about the senior England team and the small minority who can afford the ridiculous prices to watch them with prawn sandwiches, I don’t see why I should care about them either.

I’ll stick to simply being a passionate Tigers fan.
ay2oh
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by ay2oh »

aslongaswebeatsaints wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 5:46 pm The impact has been that I have gone from passionate England Fan to..well…meh.

As they only seem to care about the senior England team and the small minority who can afford the ridiculous prices to watch them with prawn sandwiches, I don’t see why I should care about them either.

I’ll stick to simply being a passionate Tigers fan.
Me too. The RFU are not fit for purpose. Two clubs go bust on their watch as no due diligence done from season to season despite Wasps piling up more debt every season. Completely disregarding the clubs who are providing them with players and ripping the heart out of the premier club in England because they sacked the previous head coach before the end of his contract . You’d struggle to find a more badly run organisation which is full of dead wood and massively over staffed .
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Tiglon
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by Tiglon »

aslongaswebeatsaints wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 5:46 pm The impact has been that I have gone from passionate England Fan to..well…meh.

As they only seem to care about the senior England team and the small minority who can afford the ridiculous prices to watch them with prawn sandwiches, I don’t see why I should care about them either.

I’ll stick to simply being a passionate Tigers fan.
I'm with you on this. I find large parts of the current England team come across as quite arrogant as well. Hard to really care too much about them.

And then the prices, I'm going to enjoy a trip to the Crumbie Terrace more than one to Twickenham, where you're often surrounded by people who aren't interested in rugby, so why ever bother going to Twickers.

A friend's daughter used to work in the hospitality boxes at Twickenham when she was 16, the stories of how grown men behaved towards her on a regular basis are actually disgusting.
tigerburnie
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by tigerburnie »

The performance and attitude is poor, I blamed Jones for it all, but maybe he was just mirroring the RFU attitude, no more spending any of my money on the England product, finished with them.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
AngusMcCoatup
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by AngusMcCoatup »

ay2oh wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 6:02 pm
aslongaswebeatsaints wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 5:46 pm The impact has been that I have gone from passionate England Fan to..well…meh.

As they only seem to care about the senior England team and the small minority who can afford the ridiculous prices to watch them with prawn sandwiches, I don’t see why I should care about them either.

I’ll stick to simply being a passionate Tigers fan.
Me too. The RFU are not fit for purpose. Two clubs go bust on their watch as no due diligence done from season to season despite Wasps piling up more debt every season. Completely disregarding the clubs who are providing them with players and ripping the heart out of the premier club in England because they sacked the previous head coach before the end of his contract . You’d struggle to find a more badly run organisation which is full of dead wood and massively over staffed .
Quote ~ "You’d struggle to find a more badly run organisation which is full of dead wood and massively over staffed ."
Well try Openreach /BT all are one man / person in a van, 4 vans arrive one operative in the manhole doing the work, one holding the guard rails and two not bothered just being paid to natter whilst other customers wait for fibre broadband action :smt013
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ourla
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by ourla »

Sweeney comes across as an :censored: for sure.

The England job is a poisoned chalice - the bar of success is very high.
westwinds31
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by westwinds31 »

sapajo wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 4:17 pm I believe Borthwick is a very shrewd operator and a fiercely driven individual. He demonstrably used his time employed by Tigers not only to vastly improve the squad and rugby but to surround himself with coaches that he knew would answer his call when England come calling. I do not believe Borthwick has any regrets about what has happened since, indeed he has played a blinder from his perspective. Only time will tell if he has bitten off more that he can chew with England but as the saying goes your only as good as your team and I believe that is precisely why he has chosen via the RFU to systematically poach his assembled Tigers coaching team with scant regard to the fall out. I guess being ruthless on and off the pitch makes him a winner?
He may have the correct coaching team around him, but that's no good if you can't get a tune out of the players, which I suspect is what may happen.
MCC1964
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by MCC1964 »

I have to say that I’m not as militant as some about this, but I am still sad to see the old team go. I think there’s a lot of unfinished business here and for Wiggy and Tom H I cannot understand why they in particular would want to step up now to an international role at switch an early stage in their careers, especially when you them describing in their leaving interviews just how much they enjoyed being here.

But the cynical side of me simply cannot except anything other than this was always Steve’s long term plan. I can’t believe he only decided he wanted Aled, Wiggy and Tom after he took the role. Somewhere along the line, whether in collusion with the club or the RFU or both, the pilfering was done in stages to try to lessen the impact. Are we really meant to believe that when Wiggy was weighing up the offer from the club about whether to take the head coach role that he didn’t know he was on his way to England? Hmmmm.

Anyway, I can’t blame any of them for being ambitious. I can only wish them well and we all move on.
Hot_Charlie
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Re: Pinchen vs RFU

Post by Hot_Charlie »

I don't think anyone is particularly upset they've moved on; this article was rather more focused on what initially appeared to be a collaborative approach between the club and the RFU turning into a bullying and borderline misogynistic emotional blackmail by the head of the latter organisation.
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