Tigers v Leinster (A) - Champion Cup - Qtr Final - 07th April 2023 - KO 8:00pm

[markharbtiger]

TBH although Tigers' loss is a bitter pill (isn't it always) it was always going to be a long shot to get anything out of this playing away from home. No disrespect to JVP but if fit, Ben Youngs should have started IMHO, and we had some other key injuries too. But even if everyone was fit and playing, I'm not sure the outcome would have been different, only the score line a bit closer. Unusually I agree with Scott1 that the scene was set very early when we went behind...
I'm hoping some of the knocks sustained by players aren't serious and we can focus on the premiership. My worry is that this has been a setback that derails our final prem games. All the more reason as I have said before, to reorganise the competition timetable so that internationals and Euro competition don't distract from prem games...

[sam16111986]

No disrespect to JVP but if fit, Ben Youngs should have started IMHO, and we had some other key injuries too.

JVP had a good first half. We should have had a try or yellow card for that early tackle on Cronin, that was all JVP setting the tempo there. JVP is playing a lot of rugby though and he looked quite tired in the second half and we are paying the price for Wigglesworth retiring and not having bedded in a third choice. Now Youngs is injured we don't seem to trust one of Wolstenholme, Whitely or Edwards enough for one to consistently be on the bench and to come on after 55 mins to add tempo. There aren't many 9s that expected to play 70/80 minutes every week, especially at JVP's age.

We've got to use the world cup period to start bedding in our development players. Those lads who were recently or currently age grade internationals need to be drip fed into the Prem games. Self generated squad depth where all are on the same page will give us an advantage.

[trendylfj]

Not an unexpected result and no one can say we didn't give it our best try with the resources we had available but our centers were just not good enough on the day. Eventually, the rest of the team struggled. A great effort and it is certainly going to be difficult for a club side to beat them. It is not much use in investing in the wingers without the centers to provide them with the ball and the Potter/Kelly combination found it difficult at this level. Leinster's 3/4 play was outstanding and we will not come up against such a polished set of 3's again for some time. Now let us win our league.

[RunTigerRun]

I think it just about shows where we are currently.

We have the potential to mix it with the top sides, but we are a few percent off able to make it stick.

Leinster taking the 3 early in the second half shows how much we got under their skins - that’s the respect we earned. A few injuries have cost us in the centre, whereas they were able to bring in arguably the form centre in the northern hemisphere in Ringrose. Makes a difference.

Full credit to Leinster it shows the quality of the side they have, and people can say it’s the Irish side, but players like Penny and Harry Byrne who aren’t Irish capped played very well too.

We aren’t that far off in my book, and some elements showed that yesterday. But after the disruptive season we have had, I think the whole club takes heart from that, even if there is an air of disappointment. It hurt yesterday, but it will be good for the players in the long run. I’d say most of that team will be here next season, with a full season of 1 coach and hopefully fewer injuries!

Proud of the boys and the club - we were second best, but we didn’t half put in a fight.

[mol2]

Why do they have such a good side with a large academy and a huge budget?

Because Ireland have chosen to use them as the development and training vehicle for the national side. Obviously not all because if you put them all together, some would get inadequate game time.

English clubs are just that. No mega funding from the RFU and no sides chosen to host the majority of the England team. The RFU might want this for the benefit of England but it would kill the club game. Who wants to watch a league where there is only going to be one winner?

The Celtic league is now a league where only only one side from any given country can really compete. OK the Welsh sides have struggled but I suspect the recent changes will see more of the national eggs in one basket.

The question is do the English clubs want to wither and die as part of an RFU lead system or be more radical and pull out of Europe and leave them to play their training league with its European extension?
The French sides have bigger budgets and can afford more overseas stars.

[mightymouse]

Of course if England had central contracts and dictated when England players played we would see less of England stars not more. Just as in Ireland when the games they play are carefully chosen and then all the big guns only in Europe.
What you would get is a faster rising of you talent and see more of that at Prem level.. personally that would be my preferred route.
My major concern them would be the clubs that produced most England talent must be recompensed fully in order for them to compete and at the same time bring more talent through.

[phil14]

Why do they have such a good side with a large academy and a huge budget?

Because Ireland have chosen to use them as the development and training vehicle for the national side. Obviously not all because if you put them all together, some would get inadequate game time.

English clubs are just that. No mega funding from the RFU and no sides chosen to host the majority of the England team. The RFU might want this for the benefit of England but it would kill the club game. Who wants to watch a league where there is only going to be one winner?

The Celtic league is now a league where only only one side from any given country can really compete. OK the Welsh sides have struggled but I suspect the recent changes will see more of the national eggs in one basket.

The question is do the English clubs want to wither and die as part of an RFU lead system or be more radical and pull out of Europe and leave them to play their training league with its European extension?
The French sides have bigger budgets and can afford more overseas stars.

The President of the IRFU is from Ulster. The two Vice Presidents are from Munster. Each Province nominates four ordinary Committee members. If "Ireland has chosen to use Leinster as the development and training vehicle for the national side", somebody needs to tell these guys. The Munster and Ulster CEOs musn't be aware either.

[Jacko27]

This morning's Daily Telegraph had two pages of Rugby Union coverage including an article about Holly Aitchison's acne but no match report on Leinster v Leicester or (unless I missed something) even a mention of the result. Call me old fashioned....

[Grumpy of Crumbie]

While disappointing for Tigers, as is any loss I think the iRFU and Leinster should be congratulated for putting in place a system that clearly works for them at every level club, province and nation. Rather than being critical we should be envious of the quality of players and teams and the results that they produce.

I feel that the powers that be in English rugby need to pull their fingers out of their backsides and wake up to the fact that the game in England is broken and faces it’s biggest challenges certainly since the game went professional if not in the history of the game.

The nettle needs to be grasped and a long term sustainable plan needs to be put in place. Unfortunately it seems that the RFU, Premiership Rugby and the Clubs are largely pulling in different directions at the elite level and at junior levels a coherent plan to encourage and develop players into the sport doesn’t seem to exist.

I have no answers, but I’m not paid a huge amount of money to have an answer, but if the warning signs aren’t enough to ring huge alarm bells I don’t know what is!!

Financial issues across the elite clubs, lack of growth in attendances, rugby participation diminishing in schools, junior clubs struggling to attract players. RFU only seem interesting in putting bums on seats at vastly inflated prices at Twickenham which is fast becoming a Corporate and Elitist playground, Premiership Rugby seem to be focussed on TV coverage.

Through all of this clubs are supposed to identify and develop young talent through their own academy systems and then hopefully find a vehicle for them to learn their trade at the top level. This against a backdrop of having to compete in pretty much every game to ensure domestic success and European qualification.

It doesn’t work and is getting worse. The inability of English sides to compete at the top level in Europe and a poor national size are clear evidence that something has to be done. Not a tinkering around the edges but a major overhaul. Drop the arrogance and look across the water for some inspiration.

And no, I’m not Irish.

[Smudge]

As Big Dai said, not an even playing field. If anyone really expected our club side with salary cap, injuries, etc and a tough league
competition week after week to compete with a Provincial team, made up of most of the Irish national team, rested and kept just for this competition, they were dreaming. Their pack has just won them the 6Ns how on earth could any mere club side hope to beat them and in the bear pit that is Dublin? It is an unfairness we have known about for years but I think this occasion has seen the defining example of all that is wrong with this competition. It is so heavily stacked against the English game now that only a club that cheats can get anywhere. To those people who advocate a central contracts regime in England being the answer, I can only say we would be balmy to adopt it.. It would kill the professional club game.
Frankly, I think we should all withdraw from the competition unless and until the playing field can be evened up.
On top of which, huge French spending while we have a much lower cap will continue to work against us.
You have to wonder what the EPL and RFU officials do with themselves while this is all going on. They certainly don't have the interests of the clubs and those of us that support them, in mind.

[jgriffin]

As Big Dai said, not an even playing field. If anyone really expected our club side with salary cap, injuries, etc and a tough league
competition week after week to compete with a Provincial team, made up of most of the Irish national team, rested and kept just for this competition, they were dreaming. Their pack has just won them the 6Ns how on earth could any mere club side hope to beat them and in the bear pit that is Dublin? It is an unfairness we have known about for years but I think this occasion has seen the defining example of all that is wrong with this competition. It is so heavily stacked against the English game now that only a club that cheats can get anywhere. To those people who advocate a central contracts regime in England being the answer, I can only say we would be balmy to adopt it.. It would kill the professional club game.
Frankly, I think we should all withdraw from the competition unless and until the playing field can be evened up.
On top of which, huge French spending while we have a much lower cap will continue to work against us.
You have to wonder what the EPL and RFU officials do with themselves while this is all going on. They certainly don't have the interests of the clubs and those of us that support them, in mind.

Agree . And some of the comments from the Irish in social media almost insufferable. They have never admitted the truth of it. Donncha O'Callaghan, having played Po rem rugby, opined that no Irish side would last half a season in the Prem. Too tough, the week in week out hard matches. He summed it up p for me. Not a level field

[Rugbygramps]

Again I agree 100% with everything previously posted, and am just glad that we came away from last with 2 relatively minor injuries.

I am a little torn when I read posters suggesting English teams withdraw from Europe, especially when you look at the split of quarter final teams by nation. England 3 teams, France and South Africa 2 teams each and Ireland one team, all be it the Irish National team

[TigerCam]

As Big Dai said, not an even playing field. If anyone really expected our club side with salary cap, injuries, etc and a tough league
competition week after week to compete with a Provincial team, made up of most of the Irish national team, rested and kept just for this competition, they were dreaming. Their pack has just won them the 6Ns how on earth could any mere club side hope to beat them and in the bear pit that is Dublin? It is an unfairness we have known about for years but I think this occasion has seen the defining example of all that is wrong with this competition. It is so heavily stacked against the English game now that only a club that cheats can get anywhere. To those people who advocate a central contracts regime in England being the answer, I can only say we would be balmy to adopt it.. It would kill the professional club game.
Frankly, I think we should all withdraw from the competition unless and until the playing field can be evened up.
On top of which, huge French spending while we have a much lower cap will continue to work against us.
You have to wonder what the EPL and RFU officials do with themselves while this is all going on. They certainly don't have the interests of the clubs and those of us that support them, in mind.

Agree . And some of the comments from the Irish in social media almost insufferable. They have never admitted the truth of it. Donncha O'Callaghan, having played Po rem rugby, opined that no Irish side would last half a season in the Prem. Too tough, the week in week out hard matches. He summed it up p for me. Not a level field

A bitter pill to swallow. IMO not so much the loss, in it for 50 minutes, but the indiscipline that bought on by pressure to allow the 38 points in the second 40.

There is a lot to be said for the un-level field between clubs / countries but IMO one thing that has come out of this game for the Tigers is to see the structure the has allowed Leinster to become a top side.

When Leo Cullen went back he said it was to build something at Leinster. Yes, there are central contracts etc but Leinster have a program that develops players from an very early age into top class players has to be admired. Money helps but it does not buy direction and drive as shown by Leo and Stuart el al and it has also taken Leinster seasons to develop,

IMO in the past few years the Tigers have flip-flopped with players and coaches alike. No real stability. When Borthwick arrived I thought that perhaps the stability needed to succeed had arrived - nope. I would like to think that the new guy arriving will bring this too but I fear that after a couple of seasons he will return to Aus to take up the International job again.

The Tigers have a clutch of really good young players in both forwards and backs helps by a Dads Army. Looking at the youngsters we have and will produce I am very positive about the Tigers future and will remain loyal through thick and thin. Donncha O'Callaghan is right, the Prem is a tough league week in week out. Go back to Edinburgh, 2009. IMO Prem rugby had sapped the strength from the Tigers legs that day too.

[wigworth]

Again I agree 100% with everything previously posted, and am just glad that we came away from last with 2 relatively minor injuries.

I am a little torn when I read posters suggesting English teams withdraw from Europe, especially when you look at the split of quarter final teams by nation. England 3 teams, France and South Africa 2 teams each and Ireland one team, all be it the Irish National team

Pulling out of the comp seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face. It is important to remember that an English club actually won the comp more recently than Leinster have, so it is not as if their setup has actually delivered a whole lot of European glory recently.

[LE18]

Not a great result but in the end it was men against boys, Leinster are a class side and I admire the way they have brought lots of their players through the academy system.
I despair with some posters on here moaning about them being the national side but when we were in our pomp we were able to recruit the top players as we were the richest club and supplied 75% of the England players, so get over it and stop moaning.
That’s life.

I agree entirely with this. I am away in Norfolk at moment so had to watch in a pub, with sound off, to me it looked like our boys gave it their all and I cannot understand the moaning. Leinster were superb, their interchanges in the backs was fabulous, yes they targeted our makeshift centre partnership, why not? Their forwards were overwhelming, couldn't see all the ref errors being referred to but hey ho, we knew we were going there to play Ireland, they have to get their players from somewhere, so why not Leinster?
All the criticism on here is not deserved, our boys really tried their hardest against the odds. Well done Tigers, I'm not crying over the result. As for differences in cap level, that's for the Nations to work out, but in England with the tiny gates, its never going to gain parity.