Edinburgh match.

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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:27 pm
AViewFromLe2 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:08 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:02 pm

Agree to disagree, there has to be some priorities, a lot for me if we win, depends on the result of the all Irish game. Go to Leinster we have to be realistic, Ulster coming here a hard game but a different prospect.
If we went to Leinster with a rotated team, we should forget ever trying to claim we're an Elite Club ever again. Elite Clubs don't throw a European QF because it's too hard.

We're a young group, with lots of talented boys. We need them playing as many big games as possible to learn, develop and drive that hunger for more of them.
Slightly ridiculous statement but there you go. We loose any chance of winning the premiership due to injuries picked up by Montoya, Wiese, Pollard because we didn’t rotate then who’s wrong then. We have rotated in Europe before at big teams and won, and nobody claimed we were trying to throw games then. I would hope as Tigers we look to win every game no matter who’s wearing the shirt
I'd actually say with how the league is sitting for us that the game to rotate is either Exeter or Quins...
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Rugbygramps
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by Rugbygramps »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:32 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:27 pm
AViewFromLe2 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:08 pm

If we went to Leinster with a rotated team, we should forget ever trying to claim we're an Elite Club ever again. Elite Clubs don't throw a European QF because it's too hard.

We're a young group, with lots of talented boys. We need them playing as many big games as possible to learn, develop and drive that hunger for more of them.
Slightly ridiculous statement but there you go. We loose any chance of winning the premiership due to injuries picked up by Montoya, Wiese, Pollard because we didn’t rotate then who’s wrong then. We have rotated in Europe before at big teams and won, and nobody claimed we were trying to throw games then. I would hope as Tigers we look to win every game no matter who’s wearing the shirt
I'd actually say with how the league is sitting for us that the game to rotate is either Exeter or Quins...
And I agree that on paper Exeter is the easier of 3 games if we win tomorrow and play Leinster/Ulster. There are some players that are key and their replacements are of good quality. We have rotated before away, and to say we can’t claim to be an elite club again if we do is at best daft.
biffer
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by biffer »

Think you guys need to double check what was said - he said if you rotate because it's too hard, you can't claim to be a big club. Not if you rotate because you can and be confident you'll still compete.
Rugbygramps
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by Rugbygramps »

biffer wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:42 pm Think you guys need to double check what was said - he said if you rotate because it's too hard, you can't claim to be a big club. Not if you rotate because you can and be confident you'll still compete.
And it was never said you rotate because it’s too hard, I said you rotate to prioritise and you would expect that whoever played to go out and win.
Maybe you need to reread Biffer
AViewFromLe2
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by AViewFromLe2 »

Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:27 pm
AViewFromLe2 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:08 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:02 pm

Agree to disagree, there has to be some priorities, a lot for me if we win, depends on the result of the all Irish game. Go to Leinster we have to be realistic, Ulster coming here a hard game but a different prospect.
If we went to Leinster with a rotated team, we should forget ever trying to claim we're an Elite Club ever again. Elite Clubs don't throw a European QF because it's too hard.

We're a young group, with lots of talented boys. We need them playing as many big games as possible to learn, develop and drive that hunger for more of them.
Slightly ridiculous statement but there you go. We loose any chance of winning the premiership due to injuries picked up by Montoya, Wiese, Pollard because we didn’t rotate then who’s wrong then. We have rotated in Europe before at big teams and won, and nobody claimed we were trying to throw games then. I would hope as Tigers we look to win every game no matter who’s wearing the shirt
Good luck trying to convince Wiese, Pollard and any other world-class talent to stay or come to the club if we left them at home for a European QF, as we decided to not properly attack Europe. The whole selling point of the club isn't the money - we're not the highest payers in the league. We get people to come and stay with us because we want to be involved in the big games, we want to win trophies and they want to be a part of that. We do not duck a tough challenge to try and prioritise other competitions, we try and win every competition we enter.

We have a tough game Friday which we need to worry about first in any case.
Rugbygramps
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by Rugbygramps »

AViewFromLe2 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:56 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:27 pm
AViewFromLe2 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:08 pm

If we went to Leinster with a rotated team, we should forget ever trying to claim we're an Elite Club ever again. Elite Clubs don't throw a European QF because it's too hard.

We're a young group, with lots of talented boys. We need them playing as many big games as possible to learn, develop and drive that hunger for more of them.
Slightly ridiculous statement but there you go. We loose any chance of winning the premiership due to injuries picked up by Montoya, Wiese, Pollard because we didn’t rotate then who’s wrong then. We have rotated in Europe before at big teams and won, and nobody claimed we were trying to throw games then. I would hope as Tigers we look to win every game no matter who’s wearing the shirt
Good luck trying to convince Wiese, Pollard and any other world-class talent to stay or come to the club if we left them at home for a European QF, as we decided to not properly attack Europe. The whole selling point of the club isn't the money - we're not the highest payers in the league. We get people to come and stay with us because we want to be involved in the big games, we want to win trophies and they want to be a part of that. We do not duck a tough challenge to try and prioritise other competitions, we try and win every competition we enter.

We have a tough game Friday which we need to worry about first in any case.
Agreed about tomorrow night and I don’t want to play a game who said what. You have your opinion I have mine that’s what makes this a forum.
That’s why coaches are paid the big bucks, and it’s lot easier to some sabre rattling when you aren’t the one announcing the team.
biffer
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by biffer »

Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:46 pm
biffer wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:42 pm Think you guys need to double check what was said - he said if you rotate because it's too hard, you can't claim to be a big club. Not if you rotate because you can and be confident you'll still compete.
And it was never said you rotate because it’s too hard, I said you rotate to prioritise and you would expect that whoever played to go out and win.
Maybe you need to reread Biffer
My reading of the post you replied to be AViewfromLe2 was that was what he was saying and you disagreed, but if others are reading it differently, not a problem.
rdracup
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by rdracup »

Policy of rotation is understandable but this is European Cup. To leave Ben Youngs out of 23 is not a good call, unless he is carrying a knock. Imagine if JVP gets injured in first 5 mins. BY has had minimal rugby in last 3 months. Wolstenholme could make 23 for Exeter. No major quibble with other calls - even Wiese needs a rest and his bench impact (or is that a finisher) could be significant. Pyrgos would unfortunately run rings around the inexperienced Wolstenholme. I hope JVP makes the full 80 or perhaps 70 if we have a good lead.
anz3001
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by anz3001 »

Actually, everyone said we’d thrown the game away when we sent a young rotated team to Clermont. Little did they know…..
AViewFromLe2
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by AViewFromLe2 »

anz3001 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:42 pm Actually, everyone said we’d thrown the game away when we sent a young rotated team to Clermont. Little did they know…..
But we didn't rotate, we picked the last 23 guys standing because of how decimated by injuries we were.

There's a massive difference between having to pick a different 23 due to a long injury list compared to picking a different 23 out of choice. It's not the same thing.
Rugbygramps
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by Rugbygramps »

AViewFromLe2 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:51 pm
anz3001 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:42 pm Actually, everyone said we’d thrown the game away when we sent a young rotated team to Clermont. Little did they know…..
But we didn't rotate, we picked the last 23 guys standing because of how decimated by injuries we were.

There's a massive difference between having to pick a different 23 due to a long injury list compared to picking a different 23 out of choice. It's not the same thing.
It is different yes, just as there is a huge difference between rotating some first team squad players, and sending a mixture of 2nd/3rd choice players as cannon fodder as some of the French teams have done and I believe Gloucester did.
PIEANDAPINT
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by PIEANDAPINT »

Two months to go in the season - minimum of 2 games in the Premiership ( hopefully 4 ) , minimum of 1 game in Europe ( hopefully 3) Logic would say play our strongest team unless we can ‘afford’ to rest players ( excluding injury ) Potentially we could rest players against Exeter and/ or Harlequins depending on other results ( in terms of top 4 or potentially a home semi ). In Europe as long as we are still in the competition we should play our strongest available 23. Just my view - with so much at stake elite professional rugby players should be able to play 7 games in 7/8 weeks.
Rugbygramps
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by Rugbygramps »

I absolutely get what people are saying about no rotation unless injury.
This is an extreme example and allows for a fully fit squad but IMO our strongest 15 is

Steward
Potter
Porter
Kelly
Watson
Pollard
JVP
Cronin
Montoya
Cole
Martin
Chessum
Liebenberg
Reffell
Wiese

Not that we ever would but we could rotate with established first team squad players and put out

Brown
Potter
Scott
Gopperth
Simmons
Atkinson
Youngs
West
Dolly
Heyes
Wells
Henderson
Liebenberg
Reffell
Cracknell

And expect that side to do a job. I maybe wasn’t very clear in my earlier posts, I wouldn’t want to loose any match but some rotation is possible and sometimes necessary
Last edited by Rugbygramps on Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Darc Tiger
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by Darc Tiger »

Let's not forget the job rotated squads did for us away in Europe last season.
iceman_19
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Re: Edinburgh match.

Post by iceman_19 »

Darc Tiger wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:26 pm Let's not forget the job rotated squads did for us away in Europe last season.
Not when it came to the knockout stages.

We went as loaded as we could to Clermont.

Rotation in the group stage of Europe is entirely different because of the ridiculous format where you can qualify on just winning a couple of games!
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