Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Tigerbeat, Rizzo, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

TigerFeetSteve
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7417
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:23 am

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Rugbygramps wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:24 pm
rich1576 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:43 pm
TigerFeetSteve wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:52 pm

I think it mostly down to where he is in the pecking order.

Currently above him as wingers:
Watson
Potter
Ashton
Steward (if say Brown or Atkinson at FB)
Porter (if not at centre)
Simmons

Then there's him & Murimurivalu who are probably considered similar, but Kini may be slightly ahead.

Obviously he's a talented finisher, but the all round nature of his game isn't considered quite as good as those listed above. For me all of the above are better than Saumaki under the high ball which is critical to our gameplan atm.

He was going into the PRC as one of the leading senior players there, and whilst I think he played well, he didn't "stand out" throughout the game.

You also have to think he got unlucky with the timing of his injury (whatever it was) he was named in the 23 to play Ospreys away, Simmons came in and has quite clearly moved up the pecking order since. Saumaki isn't going to pull away from a chasing May in the Gloucester game foot-race.
In my opinion I'd have him ahead of Simmons and Ashton, and on Potter's form this season, I'd try him ahead of him too.
Interesting opinion Rich. Can I ask why when he didn’t even shine in the PRC games he played in.
Gonna fully agree with you here RG.

Not seen enough from Saumaki to put him ahead of any of those, especially not Potter.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Scuttle
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 887
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:13 pm

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by Scuttle »

Rugbygramps wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:24 pm
rich1576 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:43 pm
TigerFeetSteve wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:52 pm

I think it mostly down to where he is in the pecking order.

Currently above him as wingers:
Watson
Potter
Ashton
Steward (if say Brown or Atkinson at FB)
Porter (if not at centre)
Simmons

Then there's him & Murimurivalu who are probably considered similar, but Kini may be slightly ahead.

Obviously he's a talented finisher, but the all round nature of his game isn't considered quite as good as those listed above. For me all of the above are better than Saumaki under the high ball which is critical to our gameplan atm.

He was going into the PRC as one of the leading senior players there, and whilst I think he played well, he didn't "stand out" throughout the game.

You also have to think he got unlucky with the timing of his injury (whatever it was) he was named in the 23 to play Ospreys away, Simmons came in and has quite clearly moved up the pecking order since. Saumaki isn't going to pull away from a chasing May in the Gloucester game foot-race.
In my opinion I'd have him ahead of Simmons and Ashton, and on Potter's form this season, I'd try him ahead of him too.
Interesting opinion Rich. Can I ask why when he didn’t even shine in the PRC games he played in.
I think I am with Rich on this. I am not sure Saumaki has had many opportunities to play with a "first team" around him, if such a thing exists these days. As such the quality of ball he gets on the wing in attacking situations, in my view, is not as good and the defensive situations he is faced with will differ if he is in with a relatively less errective team around him. The errors in defence in the midfield very often manifest themselves in acres of space and overlaps outside where the wing has to pick up the tab. People mention his defence but in recent weeks I have seen Scott, Gopperth, Pollard, Potter and Steward all miss tackles or fall off tackles, they are just not as noticeable as on the wing where is is more obvious. The power he has is immense and I just feel that, with a stronger team around him, he could be so much more effective.
As Good As It Gets
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7263
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by Rugbygramps »

When we first signed Saumaki I was genuinely excited about his potential and there have been odd occasions where he has shown this, notably Wasps and Connaught away.
There were problems for him, not of his making when he joined us, missing his daughter and partner, but he should have settled by now.
In instances such as this I trust the coaches who see him daily and compare to his peers, and both Borthwick and Wigglesworth aren’t seeing the necessary.
It is unfortunate but unless we are unable to find suitable replacement players I can see both him and Murimurivalu moving on at the end of the season
CrumblingTerrace
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 470
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:22 pm

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by CrumblingTerrace »

Saumaki and Kini are very good players, but they've played nine times between them this season. They didn't play much more last season either.

I really like both of them, but it's not efficient use of the cap to keep on two guys that we don't use.
sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7056
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by sam16111986 »

CrumblingTerrace wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:19 am Saumaki and Kini are very good players, but they've played nine times between them this season. They didn't play much more last season either.

I really like both of them, but it's not efficient use of the cap to keep on two guys that we don't use.
13 appearances and 5 tries for Kini last season then 4 games before the nasty injury Vs Scotland in the AIs.

Saumaki 5 appearances 1 try this season but 12 appearances and 10 tries last season.

For me it depends on cost, whether they are going to the world cup and whether McKellar thinks one or both will suit his game plan. If Kini isn't going to the world cup then he covers a lot of positions at a time we could be short of bodies.
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7263
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by Rugbygramps »

sam16111986 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:48 am
CrumblingTerrace wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:19 am Saumaki and Kini are very good players, but they've played nine times between them this season. They didn't play much more last season either.

I really like both of them, but it's not efficient use of the cap to keep on two guys that we don't use.
13 appearances and 5 tries for Kini last season then 4 games before the nasty injury Vs Scotland in the AIs.

Saumaki 5 appearances 1 try this season but 12 appearances and 10 tries last season.

For me it depends on cost, whether they are going to the world cup and whether McKellar thinks one or both will suit his game plan. If Kini isn't going to the world cup then he covers a lot of positions at a time we could be short of bodies.
I get what you’re saying about Kini but ifs don’t cut it for me, I would rather we looked younger and if necessary dual reg a championship player.
Saumaki tries v appearance is a little deceiving as he scored multiple times in some games including 4 v Wasps. Take that out a n it’s 6 tries in 11 appearances
rich1576
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:38 pm
Location: Uttoxeter
Contact:

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by rich1576 »

CrumblingTerrace wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:19 am Saumaki and Kini are very good players, but they've played nine times between them this season. They didn't play much more last season either.

I really like both of them, but it's not efficient use of the cap to keep on two guys that we don't use.
Other than an odd spark, Simmons, Ashton and Potter haven't exactly been ripping it up this season. Just because Saumaki and Kini haven't been given the opportunity doesn't mean we should bin them off. We can't also bring them in for a game, when they've played little to none competitive rugby and expect them to perform miracles. We really miss the A league, which would have kept lower squad members match fit.
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7263
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by Rugbygramps »

rich1576 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:03 am
CrumblingTerrace wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:19 am Saumaki and Kini are very good players, but they've played nine times between them this season. They didn't play much more last season either.

I really like both of them, but it's not efficient use of the cap to keep on two guys that we don't use.
Other than an odd spark, Simmons, Ashton and Potter haven't exactly been ripping it up this season. Just because Saumaki and Kini haven't been given the opportunity doesn't mean we should bin them off. We can't also bring them in for a game, when they've played little to none competitive rugby and expect them to perform miracles. We really miss the A league, which would have kept lower squad members match fit.
So the fact that you feel those 3 haven’t been ripping it up , in your opinion, really shows how little Saumaki and Kini have been showing in training, otherwise they would have picked
sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7056
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by sam16111986 »

Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:35 am
rich1576 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:03 am
CrumblingTerrace wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:19 am Saumaki and Kini are very good players, but they've played nine times between them this season. They didn't play much more last season either.

I really like both of them, but it's not efficient use of the cap to keep on two guys that we don't use.
Other than an odd spark, Simmons, Ashton and Potter haven't exactly been ripping it up this season. Just because Saumaki and Kini haven't been given the opportunity doesn't mean we should bin them off. We can't also bring them in for a game, when they've played little to none competitive rugby and expect them to perform miracles. We really miss the A league, which would have kept lower squad members match fit.
So the fact that you feel those 3 haven’t been ripping it up , in your opinion, really shows how little Saumaki and Kini have been showing in training, otherwise they would have picked
Kini picked up a really nasty looking ankle injury for Fiji in November. Saumaki was due to start and pulled out before kick off a couple of months back. Injury could be more of an issue than what they are showing in training.

Ifs might not cut it for you but building up a squad requires some chances to be taken. Incidentally Murimurivalu would destroy at Championship level so merely adding some young guy from the Championship isn't going to be like for like in terms of squad quality. I suspect Saumaki would score for fun at Championship level as well.
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7263
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by Rugbygramps »

sam16111986 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:14 am
Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:35 am
rich1576 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:03 am

Other than an odd spark, Simmons, Ashton and Potter haven't exactly been ripping it up this season. Just because Saumaki and Kini haven't been given the opportunity doesn't mean we should bin them off. We can't also bring them in for a game, when they've played little to none competitive rugby and expect them to perform miracles. We really miss the A league, which would have kept lower squad members match fit.
So the fact that you feel those 3 haven’t been ripping it up , in your opinion, really shows how little Saumaki and Kini have been showing in training, otherwise they would have picked
Kini picked up a really nasty looking ankle injury for Fiji in November. Saumaki was due to start and pulled out before kick off a couple of months back. Injury could be more of an issue than what they are showing in training.

Ifs might not cut it for you but building up a squad requires some chances to be taken. Incidentally Murimurivalu would destroy at Championship level so merely adding some young guy from the Championship isn't going to be like for like in terms of squad quality. I suspect Saumaki would score for fun at Championship level as well.
I agree that part of the issue is we don’t know about their fitness levels. We also don’t know what they would achieve in the championship. A point was put forward that the reason they didn’t shine in the PRC this season is that they weren’t playing with better players, well surely that would be the same in the championship ?
I don’t know for sure but I think part of the discussion for some is that they are pacific island wingers therefore they must be worth a shout.
The reality is that they are both international players who are taking up cap space, and the contribution they are currently making, injury status accepted, could be made equally well by a young promising championship player.
ads
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Born Leic, Live Leeds

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by ads »

IMO Simmons has done really well in the games he's played. I'd be putting my faith in him for a bit longer rather than Kini or Saumaki.

I've always like Saumaki, but there must be reasons he isn't getting games ahead of Simmons.
Pellsey
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2163
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Luxembourg

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by Pellsey »

ads wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:42 am IMO Simmons has done really well in the games he's played. I'd be putting my faith in him for a bit longer rather than Kini or Saumaki.

I've always like Saumaki, but there must be reasons he isn't getting games ahead of Simmons.
Simmons is a far better all round player IMHO. Saumaki can finish, but he lacks the engagement - he often seems too laid back on the pitch, often nowhere near where he needs to be to tackle, or when he he does not have the aggression to tackle hard enough, despite his size, at least for me.

Kini IMHO has had his day. The last games I watched him play, he seemed very off pace etc.
Pellsey
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2163
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Luxembourg

Re: Hosea Saumaki - Dark Horse | Leicester Tigers Tribute

Post by Pellsey »

Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:25 am The reality is that they are both international players who are taking up cap space, and the contribution they are currently making, injury status accepted, could be made equally well by a young promising championship player.
Sorry I missed this. This is exactly it!
Post Reply