England squad

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Scott1
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Re: England squad

Post by Scott1 »

ay2oh wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:14 am
CrumblingTerrace wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:43 am Three Premiership titles in five finals for us.

Led Toulon to a Top 14 Final.

Got Edinburgh from nowhere to the semi-finals for the first time.

I can only hope for a Tigers forwards coach with as good a track record as Cockers!
History. Nothing recently
Historians RFC some mate :smt002
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Leicestertinytiger
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Re: England squad

Post by Leicestertinytiger »

SB gotta go with Manu/Slade in the centres now! He’s gotta make some big calls as Italy will be no pushovers as in previous years.
mol2
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Re: England squad

Post by mol2 »

Borthwick has a job on his hands.
The issue is not the players specifically. It’s more about how the team is structured, game plan and one or two key weaknesses.

Undeniably he has got off to a rocky start. Starting by continuing with Farrell as captain.
Compound that with the restrictions in squad changes he’s was permitted and it was destined to be tough.

Yes, we beat Australia in the summer, but let’s not pretend they were playing a good side.

Retaining Farrell as captain and compounding it by playing him as inside centre was a poor decision. Limits attack and makes gaps in the defensive line. If he drifts to the fly half channel then the rest of the line has to come tighter leaving the wide channels vulnerable (at best conceding territory). If they don’t come tighter then there is an invitation for your opponents to run up the middle. Wonder try or poor positional play compounded by tackling that resembled tag rugby! Sinfield has a job on his hands.

Why on Earth he stuck with Macko is a question only he can answer? All well and good beefing up the front row with Cole, yet overlooking the selection that has seen the England scrum go from the most feared to the worst in the top tier. Having props who are dynamic in the loose can’t be at the expense of their core role. Macko is neither these days. On form VRP should have been the bench loose head.

I don’t get the Marchant thing. He is part of a fast Quins attack, but when facing powerful, organised defenders he is ineffective.

Sides also know that there is no point hoofing it up to Steward in the way it was with Elliott Daly at full back, who feared jumping for the ball. So they limit their kicking, England seem surprised and kick all the more hoping to draw the opposition into a game of ping pong. Most full backs at this level are not going to drop it when it’s a nice day! Exhausting tackling practice.

The defeat may give the opportunity for Borthwick to say that the old way doesn’t work now you play my way or go back to your clubs.
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: England squad

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Heyes, Watson & Youngs released to Tigers
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Bunchy
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Re: England squad

Post by Bunchy »

some help for the sarries match perhaps?
Less is more....
GB72
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Re: England squad

Post by GB72 »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:56 pm Heyes, Watson & Youngs released to Tigers
It had to happen to youngs at some stage. Not based of performance but as EJ had a habit of only having 2 scrum halves in the squad, and often the same 2, SB had to pick some matches to look at other options for the world cup just to fill the third scrum half spot.
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: England squad

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Bunchy wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:58 pm some help for the sarries match perhaps?
I'm hopeful with it being a bye week after that those 3 may be released for gametime... really really hope so...
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Scott1
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Re: England squad

Post by Scott1 »

So Youngs and Watson out the Italy game? Surprised at Watson,not one bit surprised about Youngs though!
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westwinds31
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Re: England squad

Post by westwinds31 »

Oh dear…Mitchell’s defence and kicking game for the Italy game.
Scott1
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Re: England squad

Post by Scott1 »

westwinds31 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:10 pm Oh dear…Mitchell’s defence and kicking game for the Italy game.
Won't be any worse than Youngs, he was dreadful vs Scotland!
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Hot_Charlie
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Re: England squad

Post by Hot_Charlie »

Scott1 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:21 pm
westwinds31 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:10 pm Oh dear…Mitchell’s defence and kicking game for the Italy game.
Won't be any worse than Youngs, he was dreadful vs Scotland!
Mitchell can be a liability in defence.
Offside
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Re: England squad

Post by Offside »

Hot_Charlie wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:18 pm
Scott1 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:21 pm
westwinds31 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:10 pm Oh dear…Mitchell’s defence and kicking game for the Italy game.
Won't be any worse than Youngs, he was dreadful vs Scotland!
Mitchell can be a liability in defence.
A Borthwick team is not going to play like Northampton do currently. A Sinfield defence is also going to be expected to be better in defence. We do not know what instructions Lenny had when he came on. Our view of an inaccurate kick may be a response to “pin them back in their own 22”. Are we shooting the actor because of a bad script? Or at least an unsuccessful one. Often the punditry, and our comments, has a hindsight bias.
SB does need to test and decide on 3 scrum halves for the World Cup. Playing Lenny and JVP does not solve that question. In the old days I would have looked good against Italy. Those days have long gone (on both sides). Should be interesting.
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Re: England squad

Post by markharbtiger »

Scott1 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:21 pm
westwinds31 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:10 pm Oh dear…Mitchell’s defence and kicking game for the Italy game.
Won't be any worse than Youngs, he was dreadful vs Scotland!
Disagree with your assessment of Youngs.

I guess if you are going to swap a 9 then the Italy game is the one to do it, but given the way they played v France, the Italians should not be underestimated.

As a Tigers supporter I'd be delighted if we could get one of our 9s back.
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Re: England squad

Post by Hot_Charlie »

Offside wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:19 am
Hot_Charlie wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:18 pm
Scott1 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:21 pm

Won't be any worse than Youngs, he was dreadful vs Scotland!
Mitchell can be a liability in defence.
A Borthwick team is not going to play like Northampton do currently. A Sinfield defence is also going to be expected to be better in defence. We do not know what instructions Lenny had when he came on. Our view of an inaccurate kick may be a response to “pin them back in their own 22”. Are we shooting the actor because of a bad script? Or at least an unsuccessful one. Often the punditry, and our comments, has a hindsight bias.
I'll be more explicit: Mitchell has a propensity to do stupid things near his line - like he did at FG against Tigers, and on more then one occasion last season (Newcastle at FG too?). Hopefully he'll be more composed with England. His yellow card record is almost as good as Care's but, as I say, seems less "calculated" but more instinctive.
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Re: England squad

Post by sam16111986 »

Hot_Charlie wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:30 am
Offside wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:19 am
Hot_Charlie wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:18 pm

Mitchell can be a liability in defence.
A Borthwick team is not going to play like Northampton do currently. A Sinfield defence is also going to be expected to be better in defence. We do not know what instructions Lenny had when he came on. Our view of an inaccurate kick may be a response to “pin them back in their own 22”. Are we shooting the actor because of a bad script? Or at least an unsuccessful one. Often the punditry, and our comments, has a hindsight bias.
I'll be more explicit: Mitchell has a propensity to do stupid things near his line - like he did at FG against Tigers, and on more then one occasion last season (Newcastle at FG too?). Hopefully he'll be more composed with England. His yellow card record is almost as good as Care's but, as I say, seems less "calculated" but more instinctive.
I suspect Borthwick is using it as a dual opportunity to give Benny a little push to try and get him working harder and fighting for his shirt but at the same time getting some experience into Mitchell.

The realistic alternatives to Youngs are JVP, Spencer, Mitchell and Quirke. JVP might now have double figure caps but the rest have less than 5.
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