Premiership Rugby

[northerntiger]

Do TMOs just see the match, or do they see the match with replay’s etc as done by the BT sport producers? Because if they do, it doesn’t matter what Healy et al say, as soon as there is a replay the TMO is drawn to it. More to the point, if BT don’t pick up on something, does then the TMO?

The TMO gets the live transmission as it goes out on BT Sport

So that is a real system glitch, which shouldn’t be happening in a (supposedly) top level sport. Effectively, if it’s flagged by BT it’s looked at. If not, it’s not. That is wrong

[northerntiger]

TMO should have the raw feed of the game, which they can look at, replay and review if they see as necessary. Or as referred by the referee. That should be it.

If that all gets too complex, the TMO role should purely be as asked by the actual referee

[Scott1]

Do TMOs just see the match, or do they see the match with replay’s etc as done by the BT sport producers? Because if they do, it doesn’t matter what Healy et al say, as soon as there is a replay the TMO is drawn to it. More to the point, if BT don’t pick up on something, does then the TMO?

The TMO gets the live transmission as it goes out on BT Sport

So that is a real system glitch, which shouldn’t be happening in a (supposedly) top level sport. Effectively, if it’s flagged by BT it’s looked at. If not, it’s not. That is wrong

Badly wrong,shockingly in fact!

[sapajo]

Do TMOs just see the match, or do they see the match with replay’s etc as done by the BT sport producers? Because if they do, it doesn’t matter what Healy et al say, as soon as there is a replay the TMO is drawn to it. More to the point, if BT don’t pick up on something, does then the TMO?

The TMO gets the live transmission as it goes out on BT Sport

So that is a real system glitch, which shouldn’t be happening in a (supposedly) top level sport. Effectively, if it’s flagged by BT it’s looked at. If not, it’s not. That is wrong

Its not a "system glitch" because its something that Premiership Rugby mandated and has been used since the TMO system was introduced. I agree its wrong when BT do not cover all live games and some BT commentators are more vociferous than others when it comes to being TMO wannabees.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Essentially the TMO is always going to be flawed as they can never see everything. The host broadcast shouldn't affect what is seen or not seen.

Essentially there's 3 ways to standardise this.
1. remove the TMO, back to onfield

2. No audio from the host broadcast, that does still leave the host broadcast to put up images on the big screen etc...

3. Replace the TMO with a team of officials. Not one but many. Have one of them dividing the play into phases to review. Then each official looks ar their part in depth. So every single ruck has someone looking at it slow motion on replay. They then flag it for a second review by one of the other team looking, if two agree there's an issue then formal review. Then things wouldn't get missed. However I reckon you'd need a minimum of 10 people working well together not 1 TMO.

[BengalTiger]

Essentially the TMO is always going to be flawed as they can never see everything. The host broadcast shouldn't affect what is seen or not seen.

Essentially there's 3 ways to standardise this.
1. remove the TMO, back to onfield

2. No audio from the host broadcast, that does still leave the host broadcast to put up images on the big screen etc...

3. Replace the TMO with a team of officials. Not one but many. Have one of them dividing the play into phases to review. Then each official looks ar their part in depth. So every single ruck has someone looking at it slow motion on replay. They then flag it for a second review by one of the other team looking, if two agree there's an issue then formal review. Then things wouldn't get missed. However I reckon you'd need a minimum of 10 people working well together not 1 TMO.

Option 4, request the commentators to not highlight things they think are foul play until after the game as doing so live brings no benifit to anyone, the TMO, 3 refs and a citing officer are there to do that, if they are incompetent so be it, foul play can be highlighed in the post match analysis if they feel the need but live it brings the system into disrepute.

[sapajo]

I see in the football world cup they had at least 4 TMOs

[bendy]

I see in the football world cup they had at least 4 TMOs

I don't think rugby is awash with aspiring referees, willing to be TMOs. I suspect we struggle to get enough officials to matches as it is, without doubling the team size from 4 to 7 or 8 at every match.

[Scott1]

Essentially the TMO is always going to be flawed as they can never see everything. The host broadcast shouldn't affect what is seen or not seen.

Essentially there's 3 ways to standardise this.
1. remove the TMO, back to onfield

2. No audio from the host broadcast, that does still leave the host broadcast to put up images on the big screen etc...

3. Replace the TMO with a team of officials. Not one but many. Have one of them dividing the play into phases to review. Then each official looks ar their part in depth. So every single ruck has someone looking at it slow motion on replay. They then flag it for a second review by one of the other team looking, if two agree there's an issue then formal review. Then things wouldn't get missed. However I reckon you'd need a minimum of 10 people working well together not 1 TMO.

Option 4, request the commentators to not highlight things they think are foul play until after the game as doing so live brings no benifit to anyone, the TMO, 3 refs and a citing officer are there to do that, if they are incompetent so be it, foul play can be highlighed in the post match analysis if they feel the need but live it brings the system into disrepute.

Option 2,no audio. Cheap and easy! Any missed foul play can be dealt with post game. I still can't get my head around the fact that commentators are having a massive say on the outcome of games,it's a farce!

[ads]

I see in the football world cup they had at least 4 TMOs

I don't think rugby is awash with aspiring referees, willing to be TMOs. I suspect we struggle to get enough officials to matches as it is, without doubling the team size from 4 to 7 or 8 at every match.

This is true, but surely its a lot easier to train up a TMO than a ref or assistant ref.

[Nofrontteeth]

How many cameras do BT run at a typical televised game?

Provide one screen per observer per TV camera. Let's call them the Observer Corp. No comms other than in the Obs room. Overview by TMO not BT or the editor.
Screen 1 sees high tackle calls TMO. TMO judges its worthy of review in discussion with the Observer, calls it in to Sir.
Sir judges if to view. What the audience then see and hear is 'official comms' and not affected by TV commentators etc.who are paid to talk.

Basic state defence tactics. Now where did I leave my ARP tin hat?

[LE18]

Essentially the TMO is always going to be flawed as they can never see everything. The host broadcast shouldn't affect what is seen or not seen.

Essentially there's 3 ways to standardise this.
1. remove the TMO, back to onfield

2. No audio from the host broadcast, that does still leave the host broadcast to put up images on the big screen etc...

3. Replace the TMO with a team of officials. Not one but many. Have one of them dividing the play into phases to review. Then each official looks ar their part in depth. So every single ruck has someone looking at it slow motion on replay. They then flag it for a second review by one of the other team looking, if two agree there's an issue then formal review. Then things wouldn't get missed. However I reckon you'd need a minimum of 10 people working well together not 1 TMO.

[Tigerbeat]

How many cameras do BT run at a typical televised game?

Provide one screen per observer per TV camera. Let's call them the Observer Corp. No comms other than in the Obs room. Overview by TMO not BT or the editor.
Screen 1 sees high tackle calls TMO. TMO judges its worthy of review in discussion with the Observer, calls it in to Sir.
Sir judges if to view. What the audience then see and hear is 'official comms' and not affected by TV commentators etc.who are paid to talk.

Basic state defence tactics. Now where did I leave my ARP tin hat?

The average number of cameras covering a Premiership match are between 8 and 10. The TMO has the live feed, a delayed feed (10-15 seconds behind real time - allows to review without stopping the game) and another 4 screens.

[LE18]

I see in the football world cup they had at least 4 TMOs

I don't think rugby is awash with aspiring referees, willing to be TMOs. I suspect we struggle to get enough officials to matches as it is, without doubling the team size from 4 to 7 or 8 at every match.

This is true, but surely its a lot easier to train up a TMO than a ref or assistant ref.

There are plenty on this forum.

[Scott1]

I don't think rugby is awash with aspiring referees, willing to be TMOs. I suspect we struggle to get enough officials to matches as it is, without doubling the team size from 4 to 7 or 8 at every match.

This is true, but surely its a lot easier to train up a TMO than a ref or assistant ref.

There are plenty on this forum.

Like clockwork