Tigers v Newcastle (A) - Saturday 07th January 2023 - KO 14:00

[sapajo]

I believe any person can be released by any team for the right price as England have demonstrated. If Tigers want to be champions again they are going to have to stump up some of the RFU cash they trousered.

[Duncan B]

Can Sean Edwards be released by France after the World Cup for a head coach role?

Leo Cullen for me. Bags of experience and an ex Tiger

[wigworth]

Can Sean Edwards be released by France after the World Cup for a head coach role?

Leo Cullen for me. Bags of experience and an ex Tiger

Personally I feel this is extremely unlikely anyway but with him you will always face the same issue we had with Borthwick, if he is successful or Ireland want to get rid of their coach he is likely the next cab off the rank for them.

[Old Hob]

I agree with some earlier posters; we've been poor all season even when SB was here. Oz pointed out one difference between last season and this - defensive line speed which has gone from electric to horse drawn.

[sam16111986]

I think we are missing Borthwick’s analytical preparation BUT at the same time this is what Borthwick has coached this team sadly.

You look at the majority of players Borthwick signed how many of them are attacking players?
Montoya and Nadolo signed before Borthwick came
Wiese? Was he a Borthwick find or Jan?
Porter a Rob Taylor signing

Did Borthwick create a balanced squad?

We had a great last season obviously but every team knows to attack our maul now, every team also seems to have their own maul game now, did we just catch teams by surprise mixed with incredible injury luck?

I remember some interviews suggesting that Weise was a type Borthwick was requesting and Jan suggested.

Borthwick brought in Watson and Cokanasiga in the summer.

I think the problem we are finding is that it's a continual arms race and we didn't add enough fire power. The players aren't necessarily the problem. Losing Ford is, seems he was as much the attack coach as he was the star player. Our attack has gone backwards and Sale have found a couple of extra gears. Sanderson has talked about how Ford is adding plenty even when not playing. Player wise we compensated (though injuries and call ups have hampered us) but we've not managed to replace the IP, Gopperth was presumably partly signed to try and help cover that.

[RagingBull]

I think we are missing Borthwick’s analytical preparation BUT at the same time this is what Borthwick has coached this team sadly.

You look at the majority of players Borthwick signed how many of them are attacking players?
Montoya and Nadolo signed before Borthwick came
Wiese? Was he a Borthwick find or Jan?
Porter a Rob Taylor signing

Did Borthwick create a balanced squad?

We had a great last season obviously but every team knows to attack our maul now, every team also seems to have their own maul game now, did we just catch teams by surprise mixed with incredible injury luck?

I remember some interviews suggesting that Weise was a type Borthwick was requesting and Jan suggested.

Borthwick brought in Watson and Cokanasiga in the summer.

I think the problem we are finding is that it's a continual arms race and we didn't add enough fire power. The players aren't necessarily the problem. Losing Ford is, seems he was as much the attack coach as he was the star player. Our attack has gone backwards and Sale have found a couple of extra gears. Sanderson has talked about how Ford is adding plenty even when not playing. Player wise we compensated (though injuries and call ups have hampered us) but we've not managed to replace the IP, Gopperth was presumably partly signed to try and help cover that.

Who was played out of position then dropped.

[Ian Cant]

Ok so we’ve lost to Sale( not unexpected as we rarely do well there) and Newcastle this season have beaten Gloucester, Exeter and Sale.
I just do t think we have had the rub of the green this year with injuries and at times referee/ TMO decisions.
Again looking at most other sides in the last 3 weeks us and Gloucester have been badly affected by injuries: today our most impressive tackler, George Martin, wasn’t playing along with the World Class Montoya( and very good hooker Dolly), the superb Weise( and the very good back up player, Cracknell), then we had no Pollard, Watson, Burns and Porter!
This season was always going to be difficult as we caught teams by surprise last season.
Those who are moaning about Wigglesworth please remember:
a) took on the Head Coach role but has lost the line out/ forwards coach in Borthwick and the defence coach.
b) the performances under Borthwick and Super Kev hadn’t been great apart from Saints and Quins: in fact our defence was leaking 3-4 tries regularly.
c) there was an England training camp for 2 days this week so we had a lot of players missing. Hardly ideal preparation time for a new coach!
d) we did fight back to grab a bonus point.

The next game in the league is Saints: this is a must win game but Saints will beat us at some point!
Personally I’d rest Montoya, Martin, Weise and maybe Hanro next week otherwise try to play as strong a team as possible to try to get some cohesiveness and aggressive defensive in place!
In the meantime I hope Wigglesworth is given more time ( and more coaches) before we judge his coaching ability.
Lastly, hopefully more respect will be shown towards all teams.
Well done Newcastle: they’ve made some great signings and it’s great to have them on TV as they don’t get much coverage.

[sapajo]

Why rest Wiese he has not played for a month and Montoya for 3 weeks??? Why rest Martin he has not played for 3 weeks either. Hanro deserves a rest

[Tigerbeat]

Why rest Wiese he has not played for a month and Montoya for 3 weeks??? Why rest Martin he has not played for 3 weeks either. Hanro deserves a rest

Keep them available for the games without the 6 nations players.....a bit of security of players available

[sapajo]

Why rest Wiese he has not played for a month and Montoya for 3 weeks??? Why rest Martin he has not played for 3 weeks either. Hanro deserves a rest

Keep them available for the games without the 6 nations players.....a bit of security of players available

Keep them out of European competition and available for Premiership

[kk20gb30]

It's always harder to defend a title than win one...kinda what makes Sarries exceptional - the ability to just continue , whatever.
All that said we have to face facts the defence has been found wanting all season , even last year I personally believe that Kevin Sinfield (despite his undoubted qualities, in every sense) achieved no more than add to the work of Mike Ford rather than redesign our defence wholesale. Steve Borthwick wanted his own men around him though , fair play .
Thus far the season has been an anti climax, but it is not over. Keep our heads, and keep doing the right things, but let us all use our eyes as well as our hearts.
Peak at the right time , and come good at the right time. There is always hope.
We have observed how things can change quickly - and alter things if req when the chance/opportunity arrives if necessary.
Decisions in haste usually end in regret .
Always Tigers.

[sam16111986]

I think we are missing Borthwick’s analytical preparation BUT at the same time this is what Borthwick has coached this team sadly.

You look at the majority of players Borthwick signed how many of them are attacking players?
Montoya and Nadolo signed before Borthwick came
Wiese? Was he a Borthwick find or Jan?
Porter a Rob Taylor signing

Did Borthwick create a balanced squad?

We had a great last season obviously but every team knows to attack our maul now, every team also seems to have their own maul game now, did we just catch teams by surprise mixed with incredible injury luck?

I remember some interviews suggesting that Weise was a type Borthwick was requesting and Jan suggested.

Borthwick brought in Watson and Cokanasiga in the summer.

I think the problem we are finding is that it's a continual arms race and we didn't add enough fire power. The players aren't necessarily the problem. Losing Ford is, seems he was as much the attack coach as he was the star player. Our attack has gone backwards and Sale have found a couple of extra gears. Sanderson has talked about how Ford is adding plenty even when not playing. Player wise we compensated (though injuries and call ups have hampered us) but we've not managed to replace the IP, Gopperth was presumably partly signed to try and help cover that.

Who was played out of position then dropped.

He was signed as a centre and outside back. Playing him at 13 would make sense. I half expected him to be given the left wing role today, given licence to roam the way Nadolo and Kini did/do. Might have added something to our attack.

[Systonite]

Annoying else notice that Clare has absolutely no carrying power at all? no matter how far he takes a run up from he’s always stopped on the gain line.

really don't get the love for him, he's fine but people seem to love him, I want to see American Joe get a game there, why Clare a seems to got the full 80 so much is beyond me

Let me help you Jimmy.
Charlie Clare carries the ball the difficult yards, when we need to reset or we need a hard yard. He takes the contact low and never gets turned over. He is not a flamboyant player. He is a grafter. He steps up when called upon, does the hard work, is often among our top tacklers and these last two seasons has given his guts for Tigers from Bordeaux to Twickenham. Don't think we've lost a line out on his throw these past two difficult games. He is appreciated by those who understand the game, which is probably why such fools as SB and RW have kept him on the pitch so long. If he is third choice hooker and on third choice hooker's wages, then we're getting value.
In a similar vein, I don't see how so many players, who have been forum favourites before, are suddenly useless in the eyes of posters on here. Cronin, Steward, Scott and Youngs all getting stick. Same goes for our remaining coaches. Criticism is all well and good, but ought to be based on more than a brief individual aberration, a couple of bad results in difficult circumstances or aping a BT commentator.
This season is far from over. We've played some poor rugby at times, but have shown, at Saints and Quins for example, that we can still play top notch rugby. The thing about today's effort, which differentiates from capitulations in previous seasons, was the fight shown to get the try bonus point. That attitude won't leave the squad overnight and may yet hold us in good stead for the rest of the season. COYT.

[Smudge]

WHY oh WHY, when we had a lineout near their corner with less than a minute to go did we not bring in all the backs to push as well? What was there to lose? Is this banned now?
We wasted a similar chance in the first half. As the commentary team mentioned, we should also have had a penalty try.
There was a problem closing out a match from the first game of the season and it would seem we are still lacking the nouse at that time of the game.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

We over achieved last season, then stood still at best over the Summer (Nemani covered some of this up early doors). We have also been worked out opponents know what is coming.

Our interim Head Coach was in charge of our hardly scintillating attack, he was the coach I was hoping SB would take with him.

The rest of the season favours us with home games but against sides we might struggle to beat in our present state. Qualifying for the HCC might be an achievement now.