Next England Head Coach (Pre World Cup)

[Scott1]

Borthwick was contracted to stay until the end of this season so staying was always an option.

You honestly think that the correct thing to do was keep him at the club at any cost once Tigers were contacted by the RFU about him being released early. You think that would have been a fair honest and decent thing to do to a bloke who has sweated blood for the club.

Does not matter what you or I think it does not change the fact that he had the option to stay but he chose to go. Put whatever spin you like on but that is the truth.

How do you know the club didn't say that it's best for him to go now so that whoever is head coach can fully concentrate on all things Leicester?!

[sapajo]

What ever your personal feelings may be that was never an option.

Borthwick was contracted to stay until the end of this season so staying was always an option.

How would you have felt if Borths did stay and we missed out on a playoff place and went out at the first knockout stage of the HC let's say? Would your narrative then change to Borths should've gone immediately due to his mind being on the England job?

No

[Rugbygramps]

Borthwick was contracted to stay until the end of this season so staying was always an option.

You honestly think that the correct thing to do was keep him at the club at any cost once Tigers were contacted by the RFU about him being released early. You think that would have been a fair honest and decent thing to do to a bloke who has sweated blood for the club.

Does not matter what you or I think it does not change the fact that he had the option to stay but he chose to go. Put whatever spin you like on but that is the truth.

It’s a fact I’ll give you that.

[Postiger2]

I'd like to thank Borthwick for the incredible job he did here and wish him the best of luck however I'm fuming at how the RFU's incompetence has ultimately cost us, despite us being a very well run club now - that just seems perverse to me but there you go.

I'm a bit nervous about the club's immediate future. SB and KS will be virtually impossible to replace but I wish them well with the national team.

[Postiger2]

I personally hope that it is just interim and we are going all out for a top coach for next season. WW is too big a risk for me

Totally agree. I'm sure WW has a lot of talent coaching-wise but straight in as head coach at the biggest club in the country....I really hope we've got someone lined up too. Tbf to Pinchen etc, the timing couldn't be any worse for trying to attract a new coach for the current season. Was always going to be an interim imho.

[peteD]

SB is not a charismatic leader whose influence starts to diminish when he leaves the room. What he has brought to tigers is an attitude to detail, and training; things that won’t disappear over night. His aim was to rebuild on solid foundations that will outlast his involvement. We have to remember that his head coach appointment was a RFU experiment (that has worked out hugely for us). If he failed then we would continue sitting bottom of league still talking about the global search for a Top coach. Success was always going to be a move to the England role.
The RFU might have given us an unexpected financial bonus by messing up the sacking of EJ. I don’t believe SB’s legacy will unravel overnight, but will also not last forever. I’m hoping that a well thought out replacement up for next season is in place and WW is caretaking the role (as much as a continuity role as can be).

[Yorkietiger]

What ever your personal feelings may be that was never an option.

Borthwick was contracted to stay until the end of this season so staying was always an option.

You honestly think that the correct thing to do was keep him at the club at any cost once Tigers were contacted by the RFU about him being released early. You think that would have been a fair honest and decent thing to do to a bloke who has sweated blood for the club.

It should never have been an issue of Tigers forcing him to stay, he should have been the one to insist he had a moral duty to honour his contract with us, and not wilfully leave us in the lurch as he has. Others may think his behaviour acceptable, I do not.

[Rugbygramps]

Borthwick was contracted to stay until the end of this season so staying was always an option.

You honestly think that the correct thing to do was keep him at the club at any cost once Tigers were contacted by the RFU about him being released early. You think that would have been a fair honest and decent thing to do to a bloke who has sweated blood for the club.

It should never have been an issue of Tigers forcing him to stay, he should have been the one to insist he had a moral duty to honour his contract with us, and not wilfully leave us in the lurch as he has. Others may think his behaviour acceptable, I do not.

So in his position of being offered the top job on a 5 year contract with his current employer giving their blessing you would have said to the RFU no just wait 6 months. I’ll have a glass of whatever you’re drinking because I’m afraid you aren’t living in the real world.

[manxleigh]

My anger/disappointment has subsided. Tough decision I am sure, life is too short to bear grudges beyond 24 hours. Onwards and upwards. Good luck to Steve and Kevin with England and good luck WW and team. We are all behind you.

[TigerCam]

You honestly think that the correct thing to do was keep him at the club at any cost once Tigers were contacted by the RFU about him being released early. You think that would have been a fair honest and decent thing to do to a bloke who has sweated blood for the club.

It should never have been an issue of Tigers forcing him to stay, he should have been the one to insist he had a moral duty to honour his contract with us, and not wilfully leave us in the lurch as he has. Others may think his behaviour acceptable, I do not.

So in his position of being offered the top job on a 5 year contract with his current employer giving their blessing you would have said to the RFU no just wait 6 months. I’ll have a glass of whatever you’re drinking because I’m afraid you aren’t living in the real world.

As I posted before, I remain gutted. It was always the case that SB would take up the England job with the RFU approaching the Tigers in August. Head hunting in a professional business is a given.

I wait to see if SB and KS are given the free rein needed to turn around a flat England side that is full of talent. For me the England side are like Eric Morecambe and the Grieg concerto - "All the right notes but played in the wrong order.".

As for the Tigers, giving RWW the job does maintain a level of consistency based on the footprint SB and KS has laid down, which has always been my wish given the ethos and progress the SB has made in the past two and a half years. Losing KS does raise, for me, the issue of continuing to build a dominate defence. The acid test will be the away game against Clermont. Win that and my "gutted" feelings may subside.

[Rugbygramps]

Tigercam don’t disagree with a word and love the Eric Morecambe analogy, I’m sure Andrew Preview agrees too.

Others have their own opinions rightly, but I don’t see an issue with the way either Tigers or Borthwick have behaved. All negotiations were done with the knowledge of the 3 parties involved, there was never a stage where anyone went behind anyone else’s back.
I would say that if he were moving to another club, or maybe another nation I would feel as aggrieved as others.

IMO as fans we have a right to know about the playing squad, movement’s availability etc. and some decisions regarding the running of the club, but certainly not confidential contract negotiations

[johnthegriff]

Agree with Rugbygramps.Borthwick came in to continue the clearout of deadwood started by Geordan Murphy. The circumstances of lockdown & restart + Sararacens misdemeanours gave him the opportunity to have good look at his squad and get rid of some, that coupled with shrude promotion of young players and clever recruitment (was that Steve or Wilkes) improved our squad no end. He.leaves us in a better position than he found us, yes it would have been good had he stayed to the end of his contract but the England job was always his ambition and to say no to the RFU would not have been forgotten any time soon.
It remains to be seen if our new head coach is allowed any latitude when he commences next season with the vast majority of his first team absent at the World Cup.

[Rugbygramps]

Agree with Rugbygramps.Borthwick came in to continue the clearout of deadwood started by Geordan Murphy. The circumstances of lockdown & restart + Sararacens misdemeanours gave him the opportunity to have good look at his squad and get rid of some, that coupled with shrude promotion of young players and clever recruitment (was that Steve or Wilkes) improved our squad no end. He.leaves us in a better position than he found us, yes it would have been good had he stayed to the end of his contract but the England job was always his ambition and to say no to the RFU would not have been forgotten any time soon.
It remains to be seen if our new head coach is allowed any latitude when he commences next season with the vast majority of his first team absent at the World Cup.

JTG -It will be interesting to see just who we are missing. From our current squad, as we just don’t know incomings and out goings I would personally say:

Certainties- Montoya, Wiese, JVP, Pollard , Steward.
Likely- Chessum, Youngs, Watson, Kelly, Murimurivalu, Leatigaga
Possibles - Heyes, Cole, Martin, Reffell, Dolly, Porter.

That is 17 players, more likely to be around 10 IMO, and we certainly wouldn’t loose both Cole and Heyes.

[Not a jock]

Now we know the identity of EJ's successor, I wonder what style of rugby England might play? I suspect it might not be that different from EJ's version and certainly not the Baa-baas' style adopted by some Premiership clubs (very entertaining but not that successful against the stronger teams).

The choice of captain will be interesting - if it's Genge (or Laws or Super Mario) then that'll suggest that Farrell's place is under threat. SB has been very pragmatic so I can't see him falling into the trap of playing the so-called best players in a team, if it means at least one is playing out of position. If so, as many others have said, you can't play Farrell and Smith at the same time. One has to be sub at best. Cricket has shown what an inspirational leader can achieve so I'd go for Genge and drop Farrell.

[GB72]

Now we know the identity of EJ's successor, I wonder what style of rugby England might play? I suspect it might not be that different from EJ's version and certainly not the Baa-baas' style adopted by some Premiership clubs (very entertaining but not that successful against the stronger teams).

The choice of captain will be interesting - if it's Genge (or Laws or Super Mario) then that'll suggest that Farrell's place is under threat. SB has been very pragmatic so I can't see him falling into the trap of playing the so-called best players in a team, if it means at least one is playing out of position. If so, as many others have said, you can't play Farrell and Smith at the same time. One has to be sub at best. Cricket has shown what an inspirational leader can achieve so I'd go for Genge and drop Farrell.

Depending on fitness recovery, both could be in jeopardy as I would not be surprised to see George Ford back as he offers a bit of everything but mainly he gives that steady control of the game and the territory. If that were the case, I would have Farrell on the bench as he can play in a couple of positions and that could see Smith out. Smith just does not seem to me to be a Borthwick type of player.