Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:03 am
I believe SB to be pragmatic enough to realise that Tigers require sufficient compensation for him leaving 6 months earlier than anticipated.
While he may not be overly happy about it, it may also paint his future employers in a slightly different light.
I get the impression he is pragmatic too and will see that Tigers have not done anything to bring this situation about. It is entirely the RFU that has created the situation, with little bit from SB himself for presumably engaging with the RFU and showing willing to be approached.
If we are to believe what has been reported this process has been ongoing for a while with Tigers knowledge and a planned date for June 2023 so I have no issue with Borthwick.
As I’ve said this whole flustercluck has come about through Jones performance or lack of and the RFUs inability to act sooner.
On reading everything that has been said and typed, I would imagine that Tigers knew this was coming down the road. It is no surprise to anyone that Borthwick is being touted as the next England coach. Taking relegation fodder to champions in 2 seasons is very very good work in anyones buisness.
I have zero doubts that the Tigers board have been speaking to other coaches. I think that it was mentioned in some rugby paper article or online that we spoke with Lancaster.
Our board are not stupid people, and Andrea seems that she knows what she is doing and how she is going to do it. I have every faith that our next coach, who ever it will be will work out, because of the Board and their thought process.
They have known this is coming, have planned for it and although earlier than expected are going to rinse the RFU for correct compensation, as their failure to plan is not our fault.
I would take Cullen given the chance…
westwinds31 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:43 am
England winning a game and the communication being "we're just focused on the next game, trying to improve, the fans have been brilliant at Twickenham and we're grateful for their support". Will the media buy into that ? They may have to.
And that would serve the media right, wouldn't it? They should be careful what they wish for!
In reality yes, but a international level they want more and the head coach has to be more amenable I'd say to keep the media on-side.
I suspect the delay is more around the RFU not getting their act together in time to get the comms out there !
I’m no expert, but it seems to me that Tigers hold all the cards here. What leverage do the RFU have to make us reduce our compensation figure? It’s not like we’re going to worry if the deal doesn’t go through and we’re left with our coaches for the rest of the season.
loretta wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:21 pm
I’m no expert, but it seems to me that Tigers hold all the cards here. What leverage do the RFU have to make us reduce our compensation figure? It’s not like we’re going to worry if the deal doesn’t go through and we’re left with our coaches for the rest of the season.
Well they could call Tigers and Borthwick's bluff and demand release Borthwick now and he is guaranteed the England job, keep hold of him till the end of the season and then all bets are off line. That said its not a very strong stance but could worry Borthwick.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity
loretta wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:21 pm
I’m no expert, but it seems to me that Tigers hold all the cards here. What leverage do the RFU have to make us reduce our compensation figure? It’s not like we’re going to worry if the deal doesn’t go through and we’re left with our coaches for the rest of the season.
Well they could call Tigers and Borthwick's bluff and demand release Borthwick now and he is guaranteed the England job, keep hold of him till the end of the season and then all bets are off line. That said its not a very strong stance but could worry Borthwick.
Doesn't look good for the RFU not to have a coaching successor ready as is. Having a protracted battle with Tigers and an interim lead them into the 6N looks even worse.
I suspect a compromise will be reached whereby Tigers keep Steve until the start of the 6N and the RFU pay a bit less cash. No Tigers assistants go with him until the summer. The RFU are under pressure over how much they are spending on the senior men's game as is.
loretta wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:21 pm
I’m no expert, but it seems to me that Tigers hold all the cards here. What leverage do the RFU have to make us reduce our compensation figure? It’s not like we’re going to worry if the deal doesn’t go through and we’re left with our coaches for the rest of the season.
Well they could call Tigers and Borthwick's bluff and demand release Borthwick now and he is guaranteed the England job, keep hold of him till the end of the season and then all bets are off line. That said its not a very strong stance but could worry Borthwick.
Doesn’t sound a good option to me, Borthwick gets dumped with a lot of the grief. Go now without agreement from the club and he’s open to breach of contract litigation. Not to mention the damage to his reputation. Stay to the end of the season and he risks losing his, previously secure, next position. Good way to alienate a new England coach!
Whether the club had agreed beforehand is still conjecture and press speculation, to be confirmed or not..
Looking at the broader picture, the long term successor to Eddie for many was Baxter of Exeter. Seen by many, including me
as the standout candidate. That club made sure he was well tied up with a new contract, to cover any wavering to his decision.
If Tigers wanted to protect their coaching assets they could have done the same.
Whatever happens now, there are going to be some very irate supporters.
Smudge wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:31 pm
Whether the club had agreed beforehand is still conjecture and press speculation, to be confirmed or not..
Looking at the broader picture, the long term successor to Eddie for many was Baxter of Exeter. Seen by many, including me
as the standout candidate. That club made sure he was well tied up with a new contract, to cover any wavering to his decision.
If Tigers wanted to protect their coaching assets they could have done the same.
Whatever happens now, there are going to be some very irate supporters.
Baxter is a odd case though, in my recollection he has never even slightly intimated that he wants to coach at the international level and the England position has been projected on to him by others. He did go on England's tour of Argentina in 2013 as a coach but his international coaching ambitions have been pretty muted since.
Last edited by wigworth on Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Smudge wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:31 pm
Whether the club had agreed beforehand is still conjecture and press speculation, to be confirmed or not..
Looking at the broader picture, the long term successor to Eddie for many was Baxter of Exeter. Seen by many, including me
as the standout candidate. That club made sure he was well tied up with a new contract, to cover any wavering to his decision.
If Tigers wanted to protect their coaching assets they could have done the same.
Whatever happens now, there are going to be some very irate supporters.
disagree I’m afraid . When Borthwick joined he probably knew he would be leaving after three years so wouldn’t have signed another contract anyway. Tigers knew he would be off after the World Cup but it has just come along a bit early due to the RFU incompetence
Smudge wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:31 pm
Whether the club had agreed beforehand is still conjecture and press speculation, to be confirmed or not..
Looking at the broader picture, the long term successor to Eddie for many was Baxter of Exeter. Seen by many, including me
as the standout candidate. That club made sure he was well tied up with a new contract, to cover any wavering to his decision.
If Tigers wanted to protect their coaching assets they could have done the same.
Whatever happens now, there are going to be some very irate supporters.
disagree I’m afraid . When Borthwick joined he probably knew he would be leaving after three years so wouldn’t have signed another contract anyway. Tigers knew he would be off after the World Cup but it has just come along a bit early due to the RFU incompetence
Exactly. When he worked in the England setup there was rumours then that he was wanted to be the successor to EJ and was being groomed for the big job but the RFU wanted him to try his hand in a top job rather than a no. 2 role before he did it. When we signed him I think it was known to be an audition for the England job, was more a question if it was 2023 or 2027... as it happens it's even sooner...
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
loretta wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:21 pm
I’m no expert, but it seems to me that Tigers hold all the cards here. What leverage do the RFU have to make us reduce our compensation figure? It’s not like we’re going to worry if the deal doesn’t go through and we’re left with our coaches for the rest of the season.
Well they could call Tigers and Borthwick's bluff and demand release Borthwick now and he is guaranteed the England job, keep hold of him till the end of the season and then all bets are off line. That said its not a very strong stance but could worry Borthwick.
Inducing a breach of contract would break World Rugby rules(not that they'd care as its such a weak body that wouldn't really matter) but would also leave Borthwick open to being sued by us for breaking his contract.
It's the classic one of, yes that could happen, but as the RFU would surely be covering Borthwick's costs in that scenario it saves no money and just destroys a key relationship between the RFU & Leicester for a generation.
For me it's simple. These figures are perfectly reasonable from Tigers. The coaches can see that. So if the RFU don't want to pay it they clearly don't want the coaches.
I hope we are in parallel negotiations with Borthwick offering him extra years/money on his deal to stay, while also keeping him abreast of our position with the RFU.
I might be wrong but Borthwick strikes me as an intelligent guy who has a lot of integrity . He will understand that him leaving half way through the season causes Tigers lots of problems. Obviously he has ambitions to coach at a high level but I’d be surprised if he were to walk out without an agreement being reached between the club and the RFU.
