Next England Head Coach (Pre World Cup)

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Smudge
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Smudge »

We think SB would be mad to accept the England job. It is a poisoned chalice and will bring him nothing but grief.
Like Johnno, he is nowhere near ready or experienced enough. It will all end in tears
If they take Aled and Kev with him I will be spitting nails.
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westwinds31
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by westwinds31 »

Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:27 pm
TigerFeetSteve wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:17 pm Telegraph has predicted an England team for the 6 Nations (should Borthwick be coach)

Freddie Steward; Anthony Watson, Henry Slade, Dan Kelly, Ollie Hassell-Collins, Owen Farrell, Jack van Poortvliet; Ellis Genge (captain), Jamie George, Kyle Sinckler, Maro Itoje, Ollie Chessum, Ted Hill, Tom Curry, Alex Dombrandt

Replacements: Luke Cowan-Dickie, Val Rapava-Ruskin, Dan Cole, David Ribbans, Billy Vunipola, Ben Youngs, Marcus Smith, Ollie Lawrence
Probably not far away maybe Arundell over Watson if fit
Far away as in 15 out of 23 that were garbage vs South Africa, but with a new head coach he’ll get a better tune out of them ?! Not pointed at you RG, but this stinks of papering over the cracks. Now Jones has gone it’s all good.
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by mol2 »

England have not been the sum of their parts for a long time.

Compound that by Sinckler struggling in the scrum since he returned from injury. Macko always struggles in the scrum against decent tight heads. 2 fly halves. (By inference only 1 Centre) 2 wings past their sell by date in international terms.

Some changes in players are required with a clarity of defensive structure and attack that is more than just boshing.

If Borthwick goes to England, how many of the current coaches will stay. Not sure there will be a role for Cockers.
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by wigworth »

mol2 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:15 pm England have not been the sum of their parts for a long time.

Compound that by Sinckler struggling in the scrum since he returned from injury. Macko always struggles in the scrum against decent tight heads. 2 fly halves. (By inference only 1 Centre) 2 wings past their sell by date in international terms.

Some changes in players are required with a clarity of defensive structure and attack that is more than just boshing.

If Borthwick goes to England, how many of the current coaches will stay. Not sure there will be a role for Cockers.
Neither Cockers or Proudfoot have done much to improve the forwards during their time there but I imagine one of them will stay. There was apparently a new defence coach joining after the autumn, Brett Hodgson, if this will still happen I guess is still up in the air. Attack wise I really don't know who they could get, maybe Eddie whispers into Borthwick's ear his grand plan.
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Rugbygramps »

westwinds31 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 5:52 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:27 pm
TigerFeetSteve wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:17 pm Telegraph has predicted an England team for the 6 Nations (should Borthwick be coach)

Freddie Steward; Anthony Watson, Henry Slade, Dan Kelly, Ollie Hassell-Collins, Owen Farrell, Jack van Poortvliet; Ellis Genge (captain), Jamie George, Kyle Sinckler, Maro Itoje, Ollie Chessum, Ted Hill, Tom Curry, Alex Dombrandt

Replacements: Luke Cowan-Dickie, Val Rapava-Ruskin, Dan Cole, David Ribbans, Billy Vunipola, Ben Youngs, Marcus Smith, Ollie Lawrence
Probably not far away maybe Arundell over Watson if fit
Far away as in 15 out of 23 that were garbage vs South Africa, but with a new head coach he’ll get a better tune out of them ?! Not pointed at you RG, but this stinks of papering over the cracks. Now Jones has gone it’s all good.
It’s who else is there. That team for me with people playing in the correct positions coached properly would do a job. Having thought about it I would like to see Ben Earl in that squad possibly ahead of Billy.
All IMO of course
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Rugbygramps »

wigworth wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:22 pm
mol2 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:15 pm England have not been the sum of their parts for a long time.

Compound that by Sinckler struggling in the scrum since he returned from injury. Macko always struggles in the scrum against decent tight heads. 2 fly halves. (By inference only 1 Centre) 2 wings past their sell by date in international terms.

Some changes in players are required with a clarity of defensive structure and attack that is more than just boshing.

If Borthwick goes to England, how many of the current coaches will stay. Not sure there will be a role for Cockers.
Neither Cockers or Proudfoot have done much to improve the forwards during their time there but I imagine one of them will stay. There was apparently a new defence coach joining after the autumn, Brett Hodgson, if this will still happen I guess is still up in the air. Attack wise I really don't know who they could get, maybe Eddie whispers into Borthwick's ear his grand plan.
I think the fact that he is reportedly looking to bring Wigglesworth in means that the game plan won’t be moving that far away except without the car crash centre partnership and a with a proper back row.
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by wigworth »

Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:29 pm
wigworth wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:22 pm
mol2 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:15 pm England have not been the sum of their parts for a long time.

Compound that by Sinckler struggling in the scrum since he returned from injury. Macko always struggles in the scrum against decent tight heads. 2 fly halves. (By inference only 1 Centre) 2 wings past their sell by date in international terms.

Some changes in players are required with a clarity of defensive structure and attack that is more than just boshing.

If Borthwick goes to England, how many of the current coaches will stay. Not sure there will be a role for Cockers.
Neither Cockers or Proudfoot have done much to improve the forwards during their time there but I imagine one of them will stay. There was apparently a new defence coach joining after the autumn, Brett Hodgson, if this will still happen I guess is still up in the air. Attack wise I really don't know who they could get, maybe Eddie whispers into Borthwick's ear his grand plan.
I think the fact that he is reportedly looking to bring Wigglesworth in means that the game plan won’t be moving that far away except without the car crash centre partnership and a with a proper back row.
I think if the forwards can get back to the 2019 level of performance this will definitely steady the ship enough to get results. Props for me are a worry and I can see Coley being recalled to shore up tighthead, a second row is needed but I think there are enough options that this not too much of a concern, back row has good options as well but just needs selecting properly and I would imagine Earls won't be left out in the cold like he was with Eddie. Backs will depend on if we are going to play kick chase or another style.

It will be interesting to see who he selects if he picks Tigers players who he knows well or if he has his eye on talent at other clubs.
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Scott1 »

I'm with RG I like that team. As much as I dislike Earl he's in for me too. A RWC BR of Earle,Hill,Mercer could be very good. Just changing 5/6 players could make the world of difference. And that could just be putting the Vunipolae out to pasture as well as Manu ,getting some speedsters on the wing instead of Nowell and May and finally sorting out the centre situation. It's not as much as you think but could make an incredible difference!
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Leicestertinytiger »

Jones’ selections for me was why he ultimately had to go. Just look at the backrow. Even Saints fans probably wouldn’t have picked Coles in the England squad, let alone the starting XV against SA.

Earl, player of the premiership last season, should’ve been starting 7. Could you imagine Ireland leaving out a player of his calibre? No of course not! Ted Hill one of the main reasons of Bath’s resurgence and best Lawes replacement, also nowhere to be seen.

All the next coach has to do is make some sensible selections and we’ll see a big improvement.
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by westwinds31 »

Scott1 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:46 pm I'm with RG I like that team. As much as I dislike Earl he's in for me too. A RWC BR of Earle,Hill,Mercer could be very good. Just changing 5/6 players could make the world of difference. And that could just be putting the Vunipolae out to pasture as well as Manu ,getting some speedsters on the wing instead of Nowell and May and finally sorting out the centre situation. It's not as much as you think but could make an incredible difference!
I kind of agree, but the cynic in me says that as good as Earl, Hill and Mercer are at club level and European level, it’s not a gimme that they’ll cut it at the top level. Yes, of course they have to be selected to see, but if we pick those 3 plus, for example, Hassell-Collins, Radwan or Murley, if we get a beating in the 6 Nations, how long before the “fans” turn on whoever the head coach is ? It’s all about results. I can’t see the media going along with “we’re playing exciting rugby but losing”.

Is it 2 Vunipolae !?
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Scott1 »

westwinds31 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:56 pm
Scott1 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:46 pm I'm with RG I like that team. As much as I dislike Earl he's in for me too. A RWC BR of Earle,Hill,Mercer could be very good. Just changing 5/6 players could make the world of difference. And that could just be putting the Vunipolae out to pasture as well as Manu ,getting some speedsters on the wing instead of Nowell and May and finally sorting out the centre situation. It's not as much as you think but could make an incredible difference!
I kind of agree, but the cynic in me says that as good as Earl, Hill and Mercer are at club level and European level, it’s not a gimme that they’ll cut it at the top level. Yes, of course they have to be selected to see, but if we pick those 3 plus, for example, Hassell-Collins, Radwan or Murley, if we get a beating in the 6 Nations, how long before the “fans” turn on whoever the head coach is ? It’s all about results. I can’t see the media going along with “we’re playing exciting rugby but losing”.

Is it 2 Vunipolae !?
Earl has cut it at international level,hes had some fantastic cameos. You're no slouch either if you win Top14 POTS too,some of their club games and HC games were close to international level. It doesn't guarantee it of course but they deserve a chance. Eddie's selections at times have been woeful. Time to move a few of these old guard out,only time will tell if their replacements can cut it or not.
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Scott1 »

I suppose its if you believe that the likes of May,Nowell,Manu,The Vunipolae etc are tried and tested or tired and tested! Sadly its the latter for me now
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Robespierre »

Scott1 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:46 pm I'm with RG I like that team. As much as I dislike Earl he's in for me too. A RWC BR of Earle,Hill,Mercer could be very good. Just changing 5/6 players could make the world of difference. And that could just be putting the Vunipolae out to pasture as well as Manu ,getting some speedsters on the wing instead of Nowell and May and finally sorting out the centre situation. It's not as much as you think but could make an incredible difference!
Earl (I’m not his No 1 fan, either), Hill and Mercer have the potential of being an outstanding back row! ( as long as the new coach tells Earl to keep his trap shut!)
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by sapajo »

Well I did say Tigers should demand a 7 digit sum 👍
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