Next England Head Coach (Pre World Cup)

[markharbtiger]

I suppose another view might be to see Borthwick occupy a very time limited caretaker role to get England beyond the 6 nations. In which case, this might not result in wholesale coach asset-striping at Tigers. Maybe I'm grasping at straws...

If they were going down the caretaker route someone like O’Shea would have made more sense IMO

Still hoping that might be an outcome, with Borthwick named but post-World Cup. THAT might be much more acceptable to all parties.

[Rugbygramps]

I suppose another view might be to see Borthwick occupy a very time limited caretaker role to get England beyond the 6 nations. In which case, this might not result in wholesale coach asset-striping at Tigers. Maybe I'm grasping at straws...

If they were going down the caretaker route someone like O’Shea would have made more sense IMO

Still hoping that might be an outcome, with Borthwick named but post-World Cup. THAT might be much more acceptable to all parties.

Absolutely but all signs seem to indicate an immediate move for Borthwick

[tigerburnie]

The press seem to think it's Borth's job, I guess we will find out soon enough as Skippy is at HQ now apparently .

[chris111]

It's seemed almost inevitable since Borthwick arrived that his next job would be England, so I could accept him honouring the contract he signed with us and then seeing what his options are (who wouldn't?).

But if he leaves mid-season, before he's honoured his contract, and takes the coaching team with him... that's a different kettle of fish.

If he’s offered a bigger job and decides the time is right to give it a go, why on earth should he be criticised for doing so? The notion of ‘honouring a contract’ is much misunderstood…in means fulfilling the terms and conditions, and these will undoubtedly include a mechanism for either party to end before the full term. If the Tigers Board decided it was in the interest of the club to terminate a contract they’d do it without missing a bit - and supporters would demand it of them - so why on earth should it be any different the other way around?

[GB72]

I suppose another view might be to see Borthwick occupy a very time limited caretaker role to get England beyond the 6 nations. In which case, this might not result in wholesale coach asset-striping at Tigers. Maybe I'm grasping at straws...

If they were going down the caretaker route someone like O’Shea would have made more sense IMO

Still hoping that might be an outcome, with Borthwick named but post-World Cup. THAT might be much more acceptable to all parties.

That is not out of the question. The reports that the RFU has not made a formal approach to Tigers to sign SB is a positive indicator as, from a negotiation point of view, it would be insanity (though this is the RFU) to sack a coach and then try and negotiate a payment for the release of SB. Tigers would have them over a barrell. That, and that alone, suggests an interim coach for the 6 Nations at least. That, however, would also be madness as it would be equally insance to not have the coach who is going to take the team to the world cup in charge at the last tournament before it. Again, this is the RFU though.

I think that what we can all agree is that SB leaving for England at the end of this season has pretty much been on the cards since day one. He has been developed to take on that role and it would have been naive to think we would hold on to him once EJ left.

I still think that SB will be gone before the weekend and will be taking at least KS with him.

[JWar]

I’m surprised Cockerills name hasn’t been thrown into the mix as he is already in the England set up and has proved himself by winning both Premiership and European titles. He would be a good Caretaker until the World Cup surely.

[markharbtiger]

If they were going down the caretaker route someone like O’Shea would have made more sense IMO

Still hoping that might be an outcome, with Borthwick named but post-World Cup. THAT might be much more acceptable to all parties.

That is not out of the question. The reports that the RFU has not made a formal approach to Tigers to sign SB is a positive indicator as, from a negotiation point of view, it would be insanity (though this is the RFU) to sack a coach and then try and negotiate a payment for the release of SB. Tigers would have them over a barrell. That, and that alone, suggests an interim coach for the 6 Nations at least. That, however, would also be madness as it would be equally insance to not have the coach who is going to take the team to the world cup in charge at the last tournament before it. Again, this is the RFU though.

I think that what we can all agree is that SB leaving for England at the end of this season has pretty much been on the cards since day one. He has been developed to take on that role and it would have been naive to think we would hold on to him once EJ left.

I still think that SB will be gone before the weekend and will be taking at least KS with him.

In my opinion, changing the head coach of England right now, is the desperate move. I think it was Eddie Jones himself who said the first year or so as a new head coach is working with 'somebody else's team'. It takes time to build. If a change is made, this is the reality. There is no time to rebuild before the World Cup.

[GB72]

Still hoping that might be an outcome, with Borthwick named but post-World Cup. THAT might be much more acceptable to all parties.

That is not out of the question. The reports that the RFU has not made a formal approach to Tigers to sign SB is a positive indicator as, from a negotiation point of view, it would be insanity (though this is the RFU) to sack a coach and then try and negotiate a payment for the release of SB. Tigers would have them over a barrell. That, and that alone, suggests an interim coach for the 6 Nations at least. That, however, would also be madness as it would be equally insance to not have the coach who is going to take the team to the world cup in charge at the last tournament before it. Again, this is the RFU though.

I think that what we can all agree is that SB leaving for England at the end of this season has pretty much been on the cards since day one. He has been developed to take on that role and it would have been naive to think we would hold on to him once EJ left.

I still think that SB will be gone before the weekend and will be taking at least KS with him.

In my opinion, changing the head coach of England right now, is the desperate move. I think it was Eddie Jones himself who said the first year or so as a new head coach is working with 'somebody else's team'. It takes time to build. If a change is made, this is the reality.

Listening to Ben kay on Talksport this mornig, EJ also said that he stayed in the job with Australia too long and when he signed up with England he stated that he was most effective when he first started and should leave a job after 4 years as that his when his impact starts to drop off a cliff.

[TigerMac3]

** Keep Aled at all costs **

Whilst I'd be gutted to lose Steve and Kev, the reality is, that's the game. You want to push and challenge yourself at the highest level, I get that. Aled would be the biggest loss. We haven't been great this year, a lot of unforced errors and some questionable judgement calls etc, but one thing you can't question is our fitness levels. When Aled joined it would often look like our lads were out on their feet after 20 minutes, no wonder we we're being pumped every/most weeks! He was a huge factor in last season's turnaround. As a proud Welshman I hope he stays under any new regime at MWWR!

[johnthegriff]

If England sack Jones this close to the World Cup then of course Borthwick is in the frame. In my opinion he would be mad to accept the role on anything less than a contract beyond the next World Cup. Should England appoint an interim replacement, then of course there is the possibility that they do so well that they get the job on a permanent basis and S.B misses out.
Having said that I am a Tigers supporter, I cannot afford to attend England matches so I care more about what happens at Welford Rd. If Borth.goes mid season our alternatives are we continue with existing coaches whilst we scour the World for a successor and pay to get them out of their contract or we see who is currently free. Names that spring to mind are Diamond, Pivac, Richards and Blackett. Of course Cocker may be released by England and available to return and personally I would be happy with that.

[Louis]

I think that what we can all agree is that SB leaving for England at the end of this season has pretty much been on the cards since day one. He has been developed to take on that role and it would have been naive to think we would hold on to him once EJ left.

I still think that SB will be gone before the weekend and will be taking at least KS with him.

I definitely agree with the first part.

Regarding the "naivety" part, and other peoples' comments re: contracts above, that there is a difference in an "industry" like rugby. I think there is a general agreement that people don't want the sport to become like soccer (revolving doors for coaches etc). Also, some positions come with a greater degree of relationship, team, and development building than others. CEO of McDonalds is relatively interchangeable a position compared to a Director of Rugby (for example, and I've been a lot closer to CEO roles than rugby roles! Neither of which is necessarily close... ). Building a team in a complex sport takes time. Injuries exist on the order of months, staff turnover exists on the order of years, the staff market is highly competitive with more "jobs" than "staff" hence why the stars can command high wages (this is an analogy because obviously there are more rugby players than Prem positions, but sports teams compete for the best players to a degree and in a manner other fields don't, making it a sellers' market).

I do think there is enough of a difference that means coaches should stay for their contracted term or be more "loyal" out of respect for the nature of the role.

[Louis]

I’m surprised Cockerills name hasn’t been thrown into the mix as he is already in the England set up and has proved himself by winning both Premiership and European titles. He would be a good Caretaker until the World Cup surely.

I'd go for this, of only for the hilarity that would ensue from the Sack Cockers Crowd.

[sapajo]

Tigers were not going to stand in the way of Borthwick returning to England at the end of the season. However, its a different ball game for Tigers to let him and potentially Sir Kev and Aled to go now mid season regardless of fiscal compensation. No one can blame Borthwick as it was always on the cards he would go at the end of the season. That said, I take a very dim view of all concerned if he were to be given the green light to go now and be allowed to take our crown jewels with him.

[GB72]

Tigers were not going to stand in the way of Borthwick returning to England at the end of the season. However, its a different ball game for Tigers to let him and potentially Sir Kev and Aled to go now mid season regardless of fiscal compensation. No one can blame Borthwick as it was always on the cards he would go at the end of the season. That said, I take a very dim view of all concerned if he were to be given the green light to go now and be allowed to take our crown jewels with him.

Sadly circumstances have made the 2 statements somewhat contradictory. If the RFU want SB to take the team to the world cup then he simply has to be running the show for the 6 nations and any training camps before hand, as would any other coach. That inherently means that you insist he stays until the end of the season would mean standing in the way of his England aspirations as the RFU may then have to look elsewhere. Sadly Tigers will bear the brunt of the chaos that the RFU has caused.

[ay2oh]

Tigers were not going to stand in the way of Borthwick returning to England at the end of the season. However, its a different ball game for Tigers to let him and potentially Sir Kev and Aled to go now mid season regardless of fiscal compensation. No one can blame Borthwick as it was always on the cards he would go at the end of the season. That said, I take a very dim view of all concerned if he were to be given the green light to go now and be allowed to take our crown jewels with him.

Tend to agree with this. Leaving at the end of the season when we have a few months to find a replacement is one thing but to go now and leave us with no coaches is not acceptable .