Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

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Chobbsy
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by Chobbsy »

Big Dai wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:00 pm Both Marler and Earl deserve a slap......it's because giving them good hiding is illegal they can behave as they do.
Would love to see you try :) :smt026
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by ay2oh »

Can always cheer myself up remembering Earls face when we scored a last minute try at Bristol when he was on loan there and also after the final win at Twickenham .
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by Rugbygramps »

For everything I dislike about Earl I would have him at Tigers in a heartbeat. He just wouldn’t get away with it under SB and how he isn’t in the England squad beggars belief
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by Big Dai »

Chobbsy wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:21 am
Big Dai wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:00 pm Both Marler and Earl deserve a slap......it's because giving them good hiding is illegal they can behave as they do.
Would love to see you try :) :smt026
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by Big Dai »

chris111 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:25 am
Big Dai wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:27 pm
Jimmy Skitz wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:17 pm Could you imagine Earl screaming, as he does in the face of Jonno or Julian White?
Thank you for the images Jimmy!
An entertaining image for most on this forum, no doubt. My original point was that it would not land so well with those who will be the future of the game. Any kid playing junior rugby would ask “Julian who?”. He retired before many of them were born….and frankly was becoming an anachronism in the professional game even before he retired.
Anachronism.....harrumph!

Not any kid......I suppose the antics of Fran Cotton, Faulkner Windsor, and Price, Chilcott, Probyn, Leonard, and the ABC club would have also been forgotten long ago if the child was brought up uneducated on the foundations of front row play.
Shame on the parents (or grandparents) I say.

How about the antics of these spoiled brats not sitting so well with us old geezers and anachronisms?
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by chris111 »

Big Dai wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:56 pm
chris111 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:25 am
Big Dai wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:27 pm

Thank you for the images Jimmy!
An entertaining image for most on this forum, no doubt. My original point was that it would not land so well with those who will be the future of the game. Any kid playing junior rugby would ask “Julian who?”. He retired before many of them were born….and frankly was becoming an anachronism in the professional game even before he retired.
Anachronism.....harrumph!

Not any kid......I suppose the antics of Fran Cotton, Faulkner Windsor, and Price, Chilcott, Probyn, Leonard, and the ABC club would have also been forgotten long ago if the child was brought up uneducated on the foundations of front row play.
Shame on the parents (or grandparents) I say.

How about the antics of these spoiled brats not sitting so well with us old geezers and anachronisms?
I’m an old geezer myself and to an extent that shapes the way I view the game as well, but I spend as much time watching junior rugby as I do Tigers - and, sorry, I’m telling it how it is. The girls and boys playing minis and tag are the future of the game, and the tales of booze and punch-ups of days gone by, no matter how much they are enjoyed on this forum, will both mystify them and turn them away from rugby.
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by chris111 »

Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:35 am For everything I dislike about Earl I would have him at Tigers in a heartbeat. He just wouldn’t get away with it under SB and how he isn’t in the England squad beggars belief
You know what - he’d probably still behave that way and it would be described on this forum by many as showing passion and commitment to the [red, green and white] cause 😉
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by Big Dai »

chris111 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:30 pm
Big Dai wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:56 pm
chris111 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:25 am
An entertaining image for most on this forum, no doubt. My original point was that it would not land so well with those who will be the future of the game. Any kid playing junior rugby would ask “Julian who?”. He retired before many of them were born….and frankly was becoming an anachronism in the professional game even before he retired.
Anachronism.....harrumph!

Not any kid......I suppose the antics of Fran Cotton, Faulkner Windsor, and Price, Chilcott, Probyn, Leonard, and the ABC club would have also been forgotten long ago if the child was brought up uneducated on the foundations of front row play.
Shame on the parents (or grandparents) I say.

How about the antics of these spoiled brats not sitting so well with us old geezers and anachronisms?
I’m an old geezer myself and to an extent that shapes the way I view the game as well, but I spend as much time watching junior rugby as I do Tigers - and, sorry, I’m telling it how it is. The girls and boys playing minis and tag are the future of the game, and the tales of booze and punch-ups of days gone by, no matter how much they are enjoyed on this forum, will both mystify them and turn them away from rugby.
Then the game dies.....if tag is the future then it is already dead. (To me at any rate.) Concern about physical contact in the game and the risks involved will surley kill it .......if fear of the odd punch up doesn't........so why worry?

Then we have the money men and the accountants having their slice so if they dont kill the game then the non contact society will.

I'm happy with u tube and my memories........as one eyed as they may be. I'm happy both mine played a full contact game, drank beer, sang songs ........and enjoyed the odd fracas. Stood up for themselves and their mates. Played a proper game, not a pale imitation.

If that "mystifies" the youth of today then so be it.
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by Rugbygramps »

Big Dai, as usual you make the point well for those of us from another era.
I am, like yourself a true rugby man, it was the only sport I was half reasonable at. Both my boys played and I always hoped that my grandkids would play, that is until I watched the programme on Steve Thompson.
Watching a 44 year old man struggle to remember his own kids names, and not remembering anything about winning the RWC was heart breaking.
I will always be a fan but until Rugby puts its own house in order, my grandkids can do whatever they like just not rugby.
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by ads »

I think this is the crux of the matter, as rugbygramps points out the head injury issues that wre prevalent in the sport at the moment means that cleaning it up is the most important thing. I mean whats the difference between head on head clash in the tackle, a clear out with the shoulder, or a good old punch in the chops! it all does the same damage, so should not be tolerated. Whilst I 've some fond memories of players getting their comeuppance I don't think it (rightly) has a place in the game any more.

That being said that antics of some of the players mentioned should not be allowed by the refs and should get penalties reversed just for being a <insert profanity here>....
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by ourla »

Big Dai wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:53 pm if tag is the future then it is already dead.
I think you misinterpreted. I took "The girls and boys playing minis and tag are the future of the game" as meaning that they are the ways who will playing senior rugby in 5 to 12 years time, not tag itself will be the future of the game.
Big Dai wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:53 pmI'm happy with u tube and my memories........as one eyed as they may be. I'm happy both mine played a full contact game, drank beer, sang songs ........and enjoyed the odd fracas. Stood up for themselves and their mates.
As discussed many times, full contact 30/40 years ago wasn't the same. Players were more flab, less muscle. Pitches were muddier and slower. People didn't spend hours in the gym and drinking protein shakes. Todays players, especially at the pro level are different gravy.

Drinking beer and singing songs is interesting one. Doesn't that still go on to some extent?
Big Dai wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:53 pmPlayed a proper game, not a pale imitation.
I agree non contact rugby would be a pale imitation but I am not sure that is what many people are proposing. Rugby is a game of evasion. Getting tackled around the legs or being held isn't particularly dangerous. But there are other elements that are. I am exaggerating a little but the term a "proper game" in your book seems to involve physical harm either in playing the game or in enforcing the laws, then getting smashed and singing lewd songs after. Is that really what you want to get back to.
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by Rugbygramps »

As discussed many times, full contact 30/40 years ago wasn't the same. Players were more flab, less muscle. Pitches were muddier and slower. People didn't spend hours in the gym and drinking protein shakes. Todays players, especially at the pro level are different gravy.

And this the crux of the matter. Recent interview I watched with Big Jim and Luke Pearce, who was excellent.
Obviously he is very close up to the highest quality rugby, but his local side are Exeter Saracens, where he goes with his mates.
In his own words, he is now watching 2 different sports, with very little to compare them, in terms of speed, physicality, skill levels.
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by Big Dai »

ourla wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:15 am
Big Dai wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:53 pm if tag is the future then it is already dead.
I think you misinterpreted. I took "The girls and boys playing minis and tag are the future of the game" as meaning that they are the ways who will playing senior rugby in 5 to 12 years time, not tag itself will be the future of the game.
Big Dai wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:53 pmI'm happy with u tube and my memories........as one eyed as they may be. I'm happy both mine played a full contact game, drank beer, sang songs ........and enjoyed the odd fracas. Stood up for themselves and their mates.
As discussed many times, full contact 30/40 years ago wasn't the same. Players were more flab, less muscle. Pitches were muddier and slower. People didn't spend hours in the gym and drinking protein shakes. Todays players, especially at the pro level are different gravy.

Drinking beer and singing songs is interesting one. Doesn't that still go on to some extent?
Big Dai wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:53 pmPlayed a proper game, not a pale imitation.
I agree non contact rugby would be a pale imitation but I am not sure that is what many people are proposing. Rugby is a game of evasion. Getting tackled around the legs or being held isn't particularly dangerous. But there are other elements that are. I am exaggerating a little but the term a "proper game" in your book seems to involve physical harm either in playing the game or in enforcing the laws, then getting smashed and singing lewd songs after. Is that really what you want to get back to.
And there you have it. The professional game has produced some very physical species....compared to the flab I carry.....thanks for reminding me. 😀😀 The term "Collision" has replaced the term "tackle". The physicality of the game has increased many fold. Enough, I fear, for this to be the main reason for putting juniors off the game. What was once a game for all shapes and sizes has become a game for various levels of muscle bound adoni! (Excepting 9s where the only over developed muscle is the jaw.)

If you've ever been part of a Welsh post game session....you can drink beer without getting smashed, as you put it.....it's called control. Plus not all the songs were lewd.....as Dokie may verify. With the Irish the guitars and banjos came out and we all did our party piece. It's called after match socialising, where friendships were made that lasted a lifetime. Regrettably this involves people like Posh Richard......beggars can't be chosers.

The game did involve physical harm...and you wore your scars with pride. I don't think you can have contact without harm? It's a question of degree. No front teeth, a busted nose, ears.....well....don't ask about the ears....I'm still alive though. Today's society definitely seems more risk averse. Here's a dilemma. It seems the public seem to want to watch a faster, more physical game but don't want the kids to play it? A reflection on a society that now runs the kids to school in the car rather than have them walk or push bike!

Ah well.........just another old duffer whinging on. Another 5 years or so and I'll be beyond caring! 😀😀

I wanna play cricket on the green
Ride my bike across the stream
Cut myself and see my blood
I wanna come home all covered in mud!
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by TigerCam »

Big Dai wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:12 pm
ourla wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:15 am
Big Dai wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:53 pm if tag is the future then it is already dead.
I think you misinterpreted. I took "The girls and boys playing minis and tag are the future of the game" as meaning that they are the ways who will playing senior rugby in 5 to 12 years time, not tag itself will be the future of the game.
Big Dai wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:53 pmI'm happy with u tube and my memories........as one eyed as they may be. I'm happy both mine played a full contact game, drank beer, sang songs ........and enjoyed the odd fracas. Stood up for themselves and their mates.
As discussed many times, full contact 30/40 years ago wasn't the same. Players were more flab, less muscle. Pitches were muddier and slower. People didn't spend hours in the gym and drinking protein shakes. Todays players, especially at the pro level are different gravy.

Drinking beer and singing songs is interesting one. Doesn't that still go on to some extent?
Big Dai wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:53 pmPlayed a proper game, not a pale imitation.
I agree non contact rugby would be a pale imitation but I am not sure that is what many people are proposing. Rugby is a game of evasion. Getting tackled around the legs or being held isn't particularly dangerous. But there are other elements that are. I am exaggerating a little but the term a "proper game" in your book seems to involve physical harm either in playing the game or in enforcing the laws, then getting smashed and singing lewd songs after. Is that really what you want to get back to.
And there you have it. The professional game has produced some very physical species....compared to the flab I carry.....thanks for reminding me. 😀😀 The term "Collision" has replaced the term "tackle". The physicality of the game has increased many fold. Enough, I fear, for this to be the main reason for putting juniors off the game. What was once a game for all shapes and sizes has become a game for various levels of muscle bound adoni! (Excepting 9s where the only over developed muscle is the jaw.)

If you've ever been part of a Welsh post game session....you can drink beer without getting smashed, as you put it.....it's called control. Plus not all the songs were lewd.....as Dokie may verify. With the Irish the guitars and banjos came out and we all did our party piece. It's called after match socialising, where friendships were made that lasted a lifetime. Regrettably this involves people like Posh Richard......beggars can't be chosers.

The game did involve physical harm...and you wore your scars with pride. I don't think you can have contact without harm? It's a question of degree. No front teeth, a busted nose, ears.....well....don't ask about the ears....I'm still alive though. Today's society definitely seems more risk averse. Here's a dilemma. It seems the public seem to want to watch a faster, more physical game but don't want the kids to play it? A reflection on a society that now runs the kids to school in the car rather than have them walk or push bike!

Ah well.........just another old duffer whinging on. Another 5 years or so and I'll be beyond caring! 😀😀

I wanna play cricket on the green
Ride my bike across the stream
Cut myself and see my blood
I wanna come home all covered in mud!
+1 :smt023, one of the first singles I purchased and played (not PT standard) on my guitar - happy days back then.
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Re: Tigers v Saracens (A) - Saturday 01st October 2022 - 3-00PM

Post by ourla »

Good point about the use of the term collision. Also there is much talk about physicality. I think that is what some of the new "tackle" laws are there to do and to some extent are succeeding. But I don't maybe it's too little too late or that the players are not such beasts collisions are inevitable. And if you are a Nadalo, what are you going to do apart from try to run over people, rather try to evade.

I'm not sure todays society is less risk averse. Certainly if my youtube or facebook feeds are anything to go by people are still doing crazy stuff. Think the problem is more just going out in the cold and run to train on a Tuesday night and then the travel, hassle, commitment of Saturday games.

But as someone who has played very little rugby I am no expert.
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