Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

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Rugbygramps
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Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by Rugbygramps »

This is a programme based on Steve Thompson and his battle with early onset dementia.
I cannot recommend watching this highly enough, it will be on BBC. I player. Sad, shocking and a must watch for anyone involved with Rugby
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by tigerburnie »

Just watched it, I really hope this is addressed and the game continues safely, these people have been let down in the past, the evidence is now clear, change has to happen, I had not realised that contact training was the biggest problem, things have to change.
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by Rugbygramps »

tigerburnie wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:05 pm Just watched it, I really hope this is addressed and the game continues safely, these people have been let down in the past, the evidence is now clear, change has to happen, I had not realised that contact training was the biggest problem, things have to change.
80,000 sub concussions in a career, the majority in training.
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by Rugbygramps »

With the moderators agreement I am bumping this up, please watch this if you have an hour to spare
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by Tigerbeat »

Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:40 am With the moderators agreement I am bumping this up, please watch this if you have an hour to spare
Definitely worth a watch :smt023
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by mightymouse »

When I watched this I found it quite distressing. My heart broke for his wife and his 4 little children and for his distress at what he sees as letting them down.
How the RFU can have treated one of its own hero’s quite so appallingly is unbelievable. I related to much of it as an ex front row forward when he talked about the punishing scrummaging training sessions ( not that mine were obviously anywhere on that scale I hasten to add!) .. burst blood vessels in the eyes, collapsing from oxygen debt and taking time to come round, ruck and maul clear outs with the head.. all done with no science behind it and just to fill the time they were being paid for!
The evidence is mounting on dementia MND and other neurological problems and yet the world rugby authorities as usual bury their heads and sweep it all under the carpet reacting, too little too late when All the evidence was already available from the NFL. Steve and Doddie and Ed and Popham are just the first of a tidal wave that is going to hit this sport over the next 2O to 25 years .. because that is how long professionalism has been in place without the necessary safeguards in place.
Having watched my mother suffer with dementia for 20 years I know what is coming for this family and sadly so does he. The sport should be funding his care, and whilst I know there are financial constraints I would suggest the sport (players, clubs, international bodies etc paying some sort of tax/insurance payment to enable those who suffer to be looked after properly)
This poor man took a downgrade in work and is now unable to work I think .. who will look after him and his family? Little was mentioned about Northamptons role in this.
I would like to think if it was one of ours the club and the fans would rally round to help out in the same way as we did for our own inspirational Matt Hampson. I can only hope the Saints faithful will do the same.
The last scenes when he gets his memorabilia out from the boxes in his garage ( where he had put them because he can’t bear to see because he can’t remember any of it) and shows his children who had no idea he had any of it including his MBE presented by The Queen it made me weep. It’s making weep again just writing this.
I advise anyone who loves rugby, as I do, to watch this. My wife has also read his book and highly recommends that too.
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by Rugbygramps »

Mightymouse you have summed it all up perfectly. I too was surprised at the lack of mention of Saints.

For me this is the most powerful piece on head injuries to date.
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by ourla »

I don't think I am going to watch it as I've heard interviews, read articles about Thompson's condition before.

I, of course, feel desperately sad for him.

Rugby likes to claim to be a community sport that looks after it's own but it's subject to the same reality of the rest of life. That is to say those in authority don't always do the right thing. Or ignore warning signs. Sometimes out if ignorance, fear of the consequences, group think or for financial reasons.

I am not saying that to brush it under the carpet or just accept it. Expose it as much as possible for me.

Thankfully I only played a bit of schoolboy rugby but as a fan/spectator I clearly have some responsibilities. Though my actions/influence is limited.

What can we do at this stage? Campaign I guess..
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by Rugbygramps »

ourla wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:27 am I don't think I am going to watch it as I've heard interviews, read articles about Thompson's condition before.

I, of course, feel desperately sad for him.

Rugby likes to claim to be a community sport that looks after it's own but it's subject to the same reality of the rest of life. That is to say those in authority don't always do the right thing. Or ignore warning signs. Sometimes out if ignorance, fear of the consequences, group think or for financial reasons.

I am not saying that to brush it under the carpet or just accept it. Expose it as much as possible for me.

Thankfully I only played a bit of schoolboy rugby but as a fan/spectator I clearly have some responsibilities. Though my actions/influence is limited.

What can we do at this stage? Campaign I guess..
Totally hear what you’re saying I found it distressing to watch as did Mightymouse.
What can we do, we’ll campaign as you say, make sure it isn’t ignored, put pressure on the authorities to look after such as Tommo.
Unfortunately we are possibly only at the tip of the iceberg. In the programme Lewis Moody admitted to playing on after he had been concussed, how many more are there like him out there.
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by mightymouse »

Indeed they showed Moody being concussed twice in the same game against Tonga ( not surprising the way they tackled and he played!) and still carried on.
As Steve points out in the programme .. there used to be a supposed 3 week compulsory stand down ( not adhered to) if concussed, now it can be as little as 6 days .. Faf DeClerk springs to mind recently.

I expressed concern a few weeks ago on this forum that Marco VS was released from our contract to go home and “recover” the next thing I see is his signed for Bulls!

On another sad note .. I was informed only yesterday by a friend of mine that our mutual school aquaintance Richard Usher had died after suffering from MND for a couple of years.
Richard played at a lower level for Macclesfield town. He was better known as the one time team Doctor for the RFU, then later for Team Sky cycling and then Ineos cycling. He may well have been the team Doctor caring for Steve Thompson et al ironically.
The point is we are not sure if the head trauma we all suffered even in lower league levels has had a damaging effect. Especially as referees were none too bothered about head high tackles leaving aside lunatics punching you or even deliberately nutting you as you went down into a scrum!
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by Qbec »

I too watched the program & I have to say the thing that got to me most of all was when Steve T was in the kitchen one of his daughters came in & for just a couple of seconds they showed her face & the look in her eyes told you everything you need to know about this terrible condition brought about by Playing/Training this game we all love & support.

This can not continue in the way it is being monited at the present the RFU in some tat for tat expression on the very day Steve launched his program to assist those now coming forward with these Sub-Concussion injuries, which at present is discribed by the medical profession as "The Least serious type of Brain injury"?

We may not be in a position to make the changes ourselves, but we can certainly make our feelings known by letting the everyone know that we the supporters want a proper enforced change not "You can/should reduce full contact in training sessions"
As that is the area that makes up 80% of the so called Sub-Concussion injuries.

Something permanent has to be done now not "Say we don't have enough evidence" its been well known about long enough.
Action is required now.
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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Rugby at all levels needs to be careful, I remember one incident at Uni with a three way collision of heads between me and both an opposition winger and their fullback whilst trying to score in the corner (I got put into touch) got up blood pouring down my nose, skipper sent me to get cleaned up, felt ok but dazed, jogged to the changing rooms washed away the blood, then trotted back out to the pitch at the next break in play, with me genuinely believing it was normal to be seeing double, I shouted on to see if he wanted to switch the blood reversal. Captain said no and I ran touch for the rest of the game. However there was no let's have a break afterwards. I couldn't work for a couple of days with headaches but by the next weeks game I was back playing. Very grateful not to have taken a knock in that game and even more grateful to the my skipper who saw I didn't look right.
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by jgriffin »

I think many have posted on here over the years, same old items:
Tackle lines on shirts, an end to any contact in the ruck except (the original) engagement with the arms (as in scrums) which reverts the ruck to a pushing and hooking contest, no heads lower than the hips, no hands, pre 90s style engagement in scrums (front rows link and grip, the rest arrive once that's sorted), proper tackle techniques taught (helps with offloads), plus the current penalties for stamping, punching etc (refs discretion), etc, etc. Drop the number of subs down, and find any means to make the game a bit more aerobic (i.e. reduce player mass).
However, you will never stop nutters leading with the head.
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by Rugbygramps »

One of Flatman’s quick fixes is that you stop tactical replacements, I.e. Only replacing injured players. This stops fresh players running into fatigued players.
Of course this is open to abuse, but maybe anyone replaced injured is then not available for selection for the next game.
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Re: Head On : Rugby Dementia and Me

Post by Tigerbeat »

Rugby: Brain injury claims against governing bodies may top £300m

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65088050

Former rugby players diagnosed with brain injuries could get millions of pounds from the sport's governing bodies to pay for their care.
More than 200 ex-players have accused rugby governing bodies of failing to protect them against brain injuries.
Legal experts said the claims against the organisations could exceed £300m.
World Rugby, the Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) and the Rugby Football Union (RFU) said they constantly strive to safeguard players.
The class action suit is being taken against all three governing bodies.
Former stars involved in the claim include former British and Irish Lion and Wales captain Ryan Jones, England international and World Cup winner Steve Thompson and former Wales international Alix Popham.
Mr Jones revealed last year that he had joined the legal action after being diagnosed with early onset dementia.
Experts believe the amounts of money involved could be substantial, particularly if long periods of care are required.

However, any legal action could be complicated and protracted, and any conclusion may be years away.
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