LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 - Prisoner of Oadby Pre-Season

[Dokie]

Highly unlikely that Dolly will be missing during the AIs. Firstly his fitness to play enough to get back into contention, secondly he is behind George and Cowan Dickie at the very least, with the likes of Blamire and Singleton on the scene too

I think it more likely that he'll be missing due to injury than international, but think Eddie has him marked for future development, so once back fit I do think Eddie will have him back in the fold pretty quickly.

Similar to the last world cup Eddie wants a third choice hooker that can cover the backrow. Singleton played backrow in some of the friendlies before the tournament. Allows for squad flexibility when the party is limited by numbers. Dolly can drop into 7 when required.

Let’s keep some perspective. Dolly was a very lucky boy when he was capped. In no shape or form is he international level. I’d pick Clare ahead of him every time.

[TigerFeetSteve]

I think it more likely that he'll be missing due to injury than international, but think Eddie has him marked for future development, so once back fit I do think Eddie will have him back in the fold pretty quickly.

Similar to the last world cup Eddie wants a third choice hooker that can cover the backrow. Singleton played backrow in some of the friendlies before the tournament. Allows for squad flexibility when the party is limited by numbers. Dolly can drop into 7 when required.

Let’s keep some perspective. Dolly was a very lucky boy when he was capped. In no shape or form is he international level. I’d pick Clare ahead of him every time.

Disagree completely, this is a guy who's got into two squads in a row with Eddie and who's been capped.

Yes he has some weaknesses in his game, but his set pieces have come on, and whilst Clare is probably still better in the set piece (pre-injury) Dolly really is closing the gap, so while you may pick Clare over Dolly in some circumstances, Dolly for me has a greater ceiling of potential.

Yes he was lucky to get capped, without OTY being unavailable and Clare's injury he may not have had the gametime, and in the AI's he was more of a rough diamond, but he really has pushed on with being in the international setup, plus learning off the likes of Clare and Montoya, for me now there's definitely a case for him being international class although only just.

[sam16111986]

I think it more likely that he'll be missing due to injury than international, but think Eddie has him marked for future development, so once back fit I do think Eddie will have him back in the fold pretty quickly.

Similar to the last world cup Eddie wants a third choice hooker that can cover the backrow. Singleton played backrow in some of the friendlies before the tournament. Allows for squad flexibility when the party is limited by numbers. Dolly can drop into 7 when required.

Let’s keep some perspective. Dolly was a very lucky boy when he was capped. In no shape or form is he international level. I’d pick Clare ahead of him every time.

Clare is better at scrum time, in every other facet of the game Dolly is better. Clare is a great squad man but at 7 years older than Dolly he's found his limit. Dolly is still improving and has taken his chances well

There's quite a number of hooking options for England currently, it'll be tough to get back in the reckoning.

[Rugbygramps]

I would agree with Dokie’s remarks when he was first called up and capped. However since then I think he really has grown as a player and developed his all round game. He is certainly pushing for that RWC 3rd hooker spot

[DingDong]

Clare is by far the better hooker when it comes to scrummaging and line out, that alone is a huge asset that gives the rest of the squad a platform to go forward with. Dolly is certainly a prospect but also erratic, if we areto to continue winning games then we need to keep those foundations consistent.

[sk 88]

Clare is by far the better hooker when it comes to scrummaging and line out, that alone is a huge asset that gives the rest of the squad a platform to go forward with. Dolly is certainly a prospect but also erratic, if we areto to continue winning games then we need to keep those foundations consistent.

I'm not sure what you mean by erratic to be honest, I think his lineout is strong and he is good round the field. He is physically smaller so can be isolated and lose the contact more easily, particularly compared to Montoya. I think it's a really good competition between them with an element of horses for course in any particular selection.

[ABClub]

Dolly's lineout work is fantastic. His throwing combined with how good he is at the back of mauls is a huge asset. The throwing aspect is interesting as it offers a strength where there is one slight weakness in Montoya's game as well. He's an incredible player but doesn't quite have the accuracy of Dolly throwing to the tail.

Dolly is weaker than Montoya and Clare at the scrum, naturally due to his size, but it's in no way a huge issue.

Our hooker stocks are in a terrific position once you add in Vanes coming through, already claiming a starting shirt at Notts.

[RunTigerRun]

With the main bulk of the squad expected to start pre-season in the next week or so - are there any additions anyone is expecting or are we pretty much set for the upcoming season?

[TigerFeetSteve]

With the main bulk of the squad expected to start pre-season in the next week or so - are there any additions anyone is expecting or are we pretty much set for the upcoming season?

We're expecting David Odiase to sign - Italian U20 Flanker

There may be one or two others, but think we're mostly set.

[RunTigerRun]

With the main bulk of the squad expected to start pre-season in the next week or so - are there any additions anyone is expecting or are we pretty much set for the upcoming season?

We're expecting David Odiase to sign - Italian U20 Flanker

There may be one or two others, but think we're mostly set.

Thanks TFS!

Assume given he wasn’t in the senior academy squad Odiase will be in the Senior Squad (surprising over Ilione but I’m not sure how the finances work!) - looking forward to seeing him based on the little Ive heard from other posters.

Will wait to see the final list!

[TigerFeetSteve]

With the main bulk of the squad expected to start pre-season in the next week or so - are there any additions anyone is expecting or are we pretty much set for the upcoming season?

We're expecting David Odiase to sign - Italian U20 Flanker

There may be one or two others, but think we're mostly set.

Thanks TFS!

Assume given he wasn’t in the senior academy squad Odiase will be in the Senior Squad (surprising over Ilione but I’m not sure how the finances work!) - looking forward to seeing him based on the little Ive heard from other posters.

Will wait to see the final list!

He may not be eligible to go into the Senior Academy, there's rules when bringing players in who is eligible and who's not depending on what level they play.

Being listed in the Senior Academy is not to say you can't be paid more than those in the senior squad.

I wouldn't read anything into which category which players are in. From the club's point of view the more in the Senior Academy cap the more space in the full squad too.

[RunTigerRun]

We're expecting David Odiase to sign - Italian U20 Flanker

There may be one or two others, but think we're mostly set.

Thanks TFS!

Assume given he wasn’t in the senior academy squad Odiase will be in the Senior Squad (surprising over Ilione but I’m not sure how the finances work!) - looking forward to seeing him based on the little Ive heard from other posters.

Will wait to see the final list!

He may not be eligible to go into the Senior Academy, there's rules when bringing players in who is eligible and who's not depending on what level they play.

Being listed in the Senior Academy is not to say you can't be paid more than those in the senior squad.

I wouldn't read anything into which category which players are in. From the club's point of view the more in the Senior Academy cap the more space in the full squad too.

Appreciate that - I wasn’t sure what the rules were regarding players being signed into the senior academy etc.

Good to see such a big senior academy though - and as you say hopefully this maximises both aspects of the cap to the benefit of the players. Will be interesting to see what loan deals and dual registrations come this year as I think Vanes and Chessum JR in particular benefitted from additional game time!

[TigerFeetSteve]

Thanks TFS!

Assume given he wasn’t in the senior academy squad Odiase will be in the Senior Squad (surprising over Ilione but I’m not sure how the finances work!) - looking forward to seeing him based on the little Ive heard from other posters.

Will wait to see the final list!

He may not be eligible to go into the Senior Academy, there's rules when bringing players in who is eligible and who's not depending on what level they play.

Being listed in the Senior Academy is not to say you can't be paid more than those in the senior squad.

I wouldn't read anything into which category which players are in. From the club's point of view the more in the Senior Academy cap the more space in the full squad too.

Appreciate that - I wasn’t sure what the rules were regarding players being signed into the senior academy etc.

Good to see such a big senior academy though - and as you say hopefully this maximises both aspects of the cap to the benefit of the players. Will be interesting to see what loan deals and dual registrations come this year as I think Vanes and Chessum JR in particular benefitted from additional game time!

I think I got it wrong before have looked up the regulations and this is what it says

“Academy Player” means any Player who: (a) on 1 September 2021 is between 16 and 24 years old (inclusive); and (b) whose total Salary in any Salary Cap Year has never exceeded £50,000; Guidance Note: A Club may choose to include a Player who meets the definition of an Academy Player in its Senior Salary Cap but once that Player is included in the Senior Salary Cap he shall no longer be deemed an Academy Player in the current or any future Salary Cap Year and shall be deemed a Senior Player for the purposes of the Regulations.

Link to the regulations

https://d2cx26qpfwuhvu.cloudfront.net/p ... .09.21.pdf

Think I got mixed up with the definitions of "home grown academy players" which is a way of getting deductions on players caps.

So that means if we sign Odiase he should go into the Academy cap unless he's on more than 50k a year.

[RunTigerRun]

He may not be eligible to go into the Senior Academy, there's rules when bringing players in who is eligible and who's not depending on what level they play.

Being listed in the Senior Academy is not to say you can't be paid more than those in the senior squad.

I wouldn't read anything into which category which players are in. From the club's point of view the more in the Senior Academy cap the more space in the full squad too.

Appreciate that - I wasn’t sure what the rules were regarding players being signed into the senior academy etc.

Good to see such a big senior academy though - and as you say hopefully this maximises both aspects of the cap to the benefit of the players. Will be interesting to see what loan deals and dual registrations come this year as I think Vanes and Chessum JR in particular benefitted from additional game time!

I think I got it wrong before have looked up the regulations and this is what it says

“Academy Player” means any Player who: (a) on 1 September 2021 is between 16 and 24 years old (inclusive); and (b) whose total Salary in any Salary Cap Year has never exceeded £50,000; Guidance Note: A Club may choose to include a Player who meets the definition of an Academy Player in its Senior Salary Cap but once that Player is included in the Senior Salary Cap he shall no longer be deemed an Academy Player in the current or any future Salary Cap Year and shall be deemed a Senior Player for the purposes of the Regulations.

Link to the regulations

https://d2cx26qpfwuhvu.cloudfront.net/p ... .09.21.pdf

Think I got mixed up with the definitions of "home grown academy players" which is a way of getting deductions on players caps.

So that means if we sign Odiase he should go into the Academy cap unless he's on more than 50k a year.

Thanks for the link! Been trying to find that since yesterday! They don't like to make this easy do they!!

[OakhamTiger32]

So our potential ‘first choice 23’ (if that’s even a thing under Borthwick) might be something like:

1. Cronin
2. Montoya
3. Cole
4. Chessum
5. Wells
6. Liebenberg
7. Reffell
8. Wiese
9. Youngs
10. Pollard
11. Potter
12. Kelly
13. Porter
14. Watson
15. Steward

16. Dolly
17. Whitcombe
18. Heyes
19. Snyman
20. Martin
21. JvP
22. Burns
23. Murimurivalu

Plenty of options but crazy to think there are 19 Internationals in that 23 (granted some retired or no longer representing their country) but what a solid, experienced and versatile squad we have most of whom have experience playing at the highest level!

With the likes of Leatigaga, Clare, Green, Henderson, Jansen, Cracknell, Wigglesworth, Gopperth, Ashton, Scott, Saumaki adding strength in depth and cover.. id say we are in phenomenal shape.. COYT