GP / SIX NATIONS PLUS OTHERS - W/E 11-13TH FEBRUARY 2022

[mol2]

Conditioning training should be a matter for the clubs.

In the short international window England should be limiting conditioning work and concentrating on strategic work. Just doing enough physical stuff to maintain fitness.

One of the things I have noticed about Tigers' warm up is that it seems shorter, I said a number of times our players were expending too much enegy warming up and that was contributing to our end of match drop off. Perhaps our fitness improvement isn't all down to Aled Walters, perhaps it's about saving it for the match. (Which may also be down to him).

The other thing we learned is that playing 2 outside centres simply doesn't work. Slade and Daly, Slade and Marchant are not good combinations. Just an excuse to say the other combinations have failed and bring back Farrell when fit. Stick a powerful inside centre be that Manu, Adkinson or Kelly and the return of Farrell would be so much harder to justify.

[sam16111986]

Conditioning training should be a matter for the clubs.

In the short international window England should be limiting conditioning work and concentrating on strategic work. Just doing enough physical stuff to maintain fitness.

One of the things I have noticed about Tigers' warm up is that it seems shorter, I said a number of times our players were expending too much enegy warming up and that was contributing to our end of match drop off. Perhaps our fitness improvement isn't all down to Aled Walters, perhaps it's about saving it for the match. (Which may also be down to him).

The other thing we learned is that playing 2 outside centres simply doesn't work. Slade and Daly, Slade and Marchant are not good combinations. Just an excuse to say the other combinations have failed and bring back Farrell when fit. Stick a powerful inside centre be that Manu, Adkinson or Kelly and the return of Farrell would be so much harder to justify.

Atkinson is squad filler. He's big and he's skilful but he's also 30 and slow.

Kelly is in great form currently but with a young 10 I think Eddie wanted experience around him.

Manu wasn't fit at the time the squad was announced but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't come back in later in the tournament. Maybe even for the Wales game.

I think Devoto is injured, he was Eddie's previous go to 12 back up. Francis the other 12 trialled is injured. Only other 12 of note is Ojomoh who is also young and uncapped.

Agree about the conditioning and warm up stuff.

[BengalTiger]

Another utter shambles, England looked like 23 strangers who met in the pub car park 15 mins before kick off, it takes a special coach to make so many good players look so poor!

[MCC1964]

Another utter shambles, England looked like 23 strangers who met in the pub car park 15 mins before kick off, it takes a special coach to make so many good players look so poor!

Geez, get a grip. Watching the game back, a lot of England’s issues were self-inflicted due to basic skill errors. You telling me these ‘good players’ can blame the coach for that? And do you think the French were a shambles last week as well?

[Tiglon]

Not sure what score would have been sufficient vs Italy for some people?

Trying to judge how good a team is vs Italy is just a massive waste of time.

[DeadlyDunc]

There is a reason why Jones played Randall and some other younger/new players against Italy.

It gives them experience in an away international but realistically it’s almost certain England will win.

I’d expect the likes of YBY to return next game but the experience of Italy will be a good starting point for the international careers of Randall, Dombrandt, Chessum etc

[Scott1]

Yes, dont be surprised to see (depending on Nowell) this backline v Wales
Youngs
Smith
Daly/Marchant
Manu
Slade
Malins
Steward

[GB72]

Not sure what score would have been sufficient vs Italy for some people?

Trying to judge how good a team is vs Italy is just a massive waste of time.

Totally agree, even the style of play and the risks taken when playing Italy do not reflect a normal match. I suspect far more caution would have been shown against stronger opposition. What are you supposed to do when you have a bonus point win just into the second half. Must be hard to stay focused. Sadly, with the fixture congestion, player welfare and the time spent away from clubs, there is becoming less of a valid case for 6 Teams in the competition aside from another fixture bringing in revenue. it is not as if Italy have moved on and progressed throughout their time in the tournament.

[westwinds31]

This is why the England head coach job is a nightmare job and I respect Eddie Jones for a) taking it on and b) sticking it out for so long. Always being told who to pick, how England have got the biggest pool of players to pick from (not sure how that helps actually) and no performance is ever good enough. I think back to this time last year, the clamour for Simmonds, Smith, Dombrandt etc and now they're in, people still aren't happy, or rather they're happy that these players are featuring, but they're not happy with the way that they've been "told to play"....so it's good that Jones has picked them, but now it's a coaching problem, he's not getting the best out of them. I'd have packed it in a while ago.

[wigworth]

This is why the England head coach job is a nightmare job and I respect Eddie Jones for a) taking it on and b) sticking it out for so long. Always being told who to pick, how England have got the biggest pool of players to pick from (not sure how that helps actually) and no performance is ever good enough. I think back to this time last year, the clamour for Simmonds, Smith, Dombrandt etc and now they're in, people still aren't happy, or rather they're happy that these players are featuring, but they're not happy with the way that they've been "told to play"....so it's good that Jones has picked them, but now it's a coaching problem, he's not getting the best out of them. I'd have packed it in a while ago.

I couldn't agree more, it is almost as if club rugby and international rugby are different standards of players they are playing against. Personally I have not seen anything from Simmonds either for England or the Lions that would give me any indication that he will be a good international player, he seems to be very very ordinary at international level.

[Rugbygramps]

Not sure what score would have been sufficient vs Italy for some people?

Trying to judge how good a team is vs Italy is just a massive waste of time.

They mentioned during commentary an average of 40 points per game against Italy, but I reckon there must be a couple of 60 point thumpings in there

[ABClub]

Not really relevant for the Six Nations but hopefully relevant for England further down the line that Jack Willis is due a return for Wasps next month. He could be a very special player indeed if he can stay fit.

[jgriffin]

I repeat my observation made during the match, Smith and Randall had a good first half, but were faced with a substandard team and did a lot of Danny Care style buzzing around which collapsed in a moribund second half in which both became anonymous. Tigers 2nds would've stuffed them (as would most Prem teams), purpose, intensity everything faded. Are they a one-half team?

[Scott1]

We did better than France the week before ,away from home,with a 40 minute performance. Not much more to take away really

[Tiglon]

Not sure what score would have been sufficient vs Italy for some people?

Trying to judge how good a team is vs Italy is just a massive waste of time.

They mentioned during commentary an average of 40 points per game against Italy, but I reckon there must be a couple of 60 point thumpings in there

That stat is a bit misleading.

Average winning margin England vs Italy is 28 points.
Average winning margin England vs Italy in Italy is 24 points.
Last time England put 60 past Italy was 2001.
This year was the first time in 6 Nations history that Italy have failed to score a point vs England.
This year was the 3rd biggest margin of victory for England vs Italy in 6 Nations since 2004.
Only 2 point lesser winning margin than 2003 at Twickenham.
England have scored 40+ points in just 7 of the previous 18 matches vs Italy.