LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD EPISODE VI: The Return of the Burns

[Ian Cant]

I was a huge fan of Freddie Burns but I’d rather have Zac Henry or McPhillips staying as they have stayed fit and both have shown good potential.
Freddie had injury problems at Bath and when he did play didn’t do that well.
I welcome him back but feel we need more of a Flood ( not now) type of Fly half: a good organiser of the defence and playmaker.
Thanks to both lads who are leaving.

[RagingBull]

An Orlando Bailey / George Barton type would be great

Edit: think Barton is out of contract too

If Barton is out of contract I would put both Henry and McPhillips towards him lol.

[RagingBull]

I was a huge fan of Freddie Burns but I’d rather have Zac Henry or McPhillips staying as they have stayed fit and both have shown good potential.
Freddie had injury problems at Bath and when he did play didn’t do that well.
I welcome him back but feel we need more of a Flood ( not now) type of Fly half: a good organiser of the defence and playmaker.
Thanks to both lads who are leaving.

What injury problems did Burns have?
Bath 2019/20 - 19 games
Bath 2018/19 - 24 games
Bath 2017/18 - 23 games

[AViewFromLe2]

Evening folks. Given the improvements in the squad over the last 12 months, here's something looking at the squad, and seeing what needs adding in.

https://aviewfromle2.wixsite.com/websit ... ere-we-are

Good read.
Not sure I agree with the
"However, thanks to the hard work that Murphy, Simon Cohen and Jan McGinty put in, Tigers started this season with a much improved squad"
Cohen tenure added Henry, Mamu, Nadolo and Brink 2 are confirmed/gone off already and we sort of stumbled into that improved squad.
I credit whoever signed the replacements for the Covid leavers though did a great job in a short amount of time.

You also in the previous Paragraph say
"As much as there were question marks over the quality of coaching, it would be hard to imagine many coaches creating any sort of silk’s purse out of the sow’s ear that Geordan Murphy inherited."

Which ironically was more the Cohen years in terms of squads.

I hear both Goode and Healey credit Murphy for the current squad but without knowing who was involved with who's signign directly it's hard IMO to lay claim.

Who signed Wiese v Who signed Enever for example.

Thanks Raging Bull!

I think to answer the points you raise, I personally believe both things can be true at the same time. Prior to Murphy taking over in 2018, the recruitment had been shambolic, of which Cohen would have been a big part of, along with Cockers/Moc and the famous rugby committee. He, as well as the collective they, deserve criticism of that process because quite clearly it was not good enough and they were all responsible for it together. Ultimately it's their name on the door.

Now in regards to the comment regarding last summer's recruitment, I think it can also be true that Cohen/Murphy/McGinty deserve praise because again, as a collective, they oversaw a much better recruitment drive, and a much better collective of signings brought in. Henry now deciding to leave does not make him suddenly become a bad signing, he was what he always was designed to be - a fairly solid option as a back up 10. I think it would be churlish to not praise those 3 for the squad improvement, they oversaw the process, and if they had got it wrong they would have took the flack. As it goes the squad is now much improved, largely due to the choices and decisions those 3 made.

Personally I think Cohen/Murphy/McGinty deserve praise because for the 18 months / 2 years they oversaw a different recruitment model, a much better group of new signings were brought in. Not every one was a success but I'd argue the majority did pay off, which is what you are aiming for ultimately, especially during these weird times of the last 15 months. The 3 are part of the story, and they deserve praise as they oversaw the improvement of the squad, the benefits of which we are now seeing under SB's coaching team. It is also true that the recruitment prior to those 3 overseeing it was not good enough, and Cohen as part of the management team overseeing that does deserve criticism, and plenty of people have criticised and did criticise at the time.

[LE18]

its not developing him there its using him as the last option so we can spend resources elsewhere

I really don't see Worth as a 10, he is too big and slow for me, if posters just want to pull players out of thin air just because they think someone might do it, then why not use a "play maker" such as Scott or Kelly as emergency cover as we have a number of established centres chasing 2 positions, use the spare at 10, not a covering full back.

You really think using Kelly and Scott at 10 would be the same as using Worth there?!

I definitely they would be better. Worth, to me, is a 15 or possibly 13, his build would suit a 13.

[LE18]

McPhilips confirmed off

Thats a loss
Joins Carcassonne

Nice place Carcassonne. Did fireworks on the battlements once!

Nice place, walled old city, stayed there once when we played Toulouse, very very cold place in winter, suffers from mist and fog, plane could not land, bused us there from Perpignan.

[RagingBull]

AViewfromthe22, I can see your point.
I do think that generally recruitment did change for the better when McGinty came in.
But it does sometimes seem to at least get forgotten that Borthwick was here when a good chunk of the new players for this season got signed.

[RagingBull]

In terms of 10's maybe we are waiting to see the Ealing game?
Craig Willis has been very good for them and look good IMO for Falcons before.

[LE18]

What I don’t follow with both Henry and McP both going is why have they been ‘looked at’ in recent weeks. I know Ford can’t play every game. This is why I don’t think Bonilla is the answer as surely SB would have been using him much more on the pitch if he was staying.

I’d guess we must have someone else lined up and (again I am guessing) Ford must be fit enough to play v Wasps as I wouldn’t want someone who is leaving imminently to be playing in this important game.

Perhaps both only told Borthwick this week they were leaving, after securing their contracts.

[kpj tiger]

So when are we announcing DMAC

[Dokie]

I really don't see Worth as a 10, he is too big and slow for me, if posters just want to pull players out of thin air just because they think someone might do it, then why not use a "play maker" such as Scott or Kelly as emergency cover as we have a number of established centres chasing 2 positions, use the spare at 10, not a covering full back.

You really think using Kelly and Scott at 10 would be the same as using Worth there?!

I definitely they would be better. Worth, to me, is a 15 or possibly 13, his build would suit a 13.

Forget his build. He doesn’t have the pace or feet to trouble defences from 13 or 15. For me, at 1st team level, he’s a 12 or nothing. My real feeling is that he’s a championship player.

[markharbtiger]

Oh dear me. Disappointed. I thought McPhillips was looking good. Hope we don’t go from glut to famine at 10. Looking back it’s a position that seems to have allowed a lot of talent to come and go...

[MurphysLaw]

[quote=AViewFromLe2 post_id=784584 time=1623346799 user_id=40910]
Evening folks. Given the improvements in the squad over the last 12 months, here's something looking at the squad, and seeing what needs adding in.

https://aviewfromle2.wixsite.com/websit ... ere-we-are
[/quote]

A very good read!
I would maybe add a brief mention of the Pat Howard strategic review, as a part of the process. Also, the re-signing of players, we needed to keep rarely gets mentioned, compared to new signings, but are perhaps of more importance. Otherwise, you have pretty much nailed it imo.
I also found the choices of the season's awards hard to call with many possible contenders, which is a very good sign after the bleak years. In the end, I voted precisely as you did.

[JP14]

In terms of 10's maybe we are waiting to see the Ealing game?
Craig Willis has been very good for them and look good IMO for Falcons before.

I was thinking Willis, or maybe we have tempted Costelow back ?

[Pellsey]

I’d take Worth at 10 over Joe Ford!

I'd take Tom Youngs at 10 over Joe Ford.

Could it be that Bonilla has an injury and we haven't been told?