A Proper Clear Out

[johnthegriff]

When Geordan took over as Head Coach he had more actual coaching experience than either Dean Richards or Pat Howard when they took charge and they did not turn out too badly. I do not share the view that Geordan was out of his depth, the circumstances he inherited were awful due to previous bad decisions and other matters beyond his or the clubs control. At the start of his first season it was arranged that Steve Borthwick would be joining in a Head Coach role when free from England duties so Geordan with most of his first team away at the World Cup continued in charge of coaching, and as previously agreed moved to D.O.R when Borthwick eventually arrived. In the meantime Jan McGinity had been appointed to a talent spotting and recruitment role surely part of a D.O.R's job. We have virtually a new Board of Directors in the midst of a world wide pandemic, fresh eyes were looking at how to take the club forward. Geordan had more than a year left on his contract yet The Rugby Paper mischievously to fill space breaks a story that no discussions had taken place re extending that contract, did that precipitate Geordan asking for clarification on his position and on finding that the Boards thinking was not to his liking decided to go now. I am sure others like myself have been in a position where you decide (or someone else decides) whether to work your notice or leave immediately. I do not think Geordan was set up to fail, sometimes life is a :censored: and things just do not turn out right.

[sapajo]

Murphy was groomed from the outset for a top job post his playing career by the Board, He had a long and varied training period under Cockers, Mauger and MOC. Indeed he even travelled to NZ to spend time working with Darryl GIbson. Murphy was not set up to fail, the fact is he was given more than enough opportunity to succeed. Sadly it s beyond any doubt that his cabilities as both a Head Coach and DOR that truly failed him. Despite these failings he still remains a truly great Tigers player and servant of our club.

[Redstripeman]

When Geordan took over as Head Coach he had more actual coaching experience than either Dean Richards or Pat Howard when they took charge and they did not turn out too badly. I do not share the view that Geordan was out of his depth, the circumstances he inherited were awful due to previous bad decisions and other matters beyond his or the clubs control. At the start of his first season it was arranged that Steve Borthwick would be joining in a Head Coach role when free from England duties so Geordan with most of his first team away at the World Cup continued in charge of coaching, and as previously agreed moved to D.O.R when Borthwick eventually arrived. In the meantime Jan McGinity had been appointed to a talent spotting and recruitment role surely part of a D.O.R's job. We have virtually a new Board of Directors in the midst of a world wide pandemic, fresh eyes were looking at how to take the club forward. Geordan had more than a year left on his contract yet The Rugby Paper mischievously to fill space breaks a story that no discussions had taken place re extending that contract, did that precipitate Geordan asking for clarification on his position and on finding that the Boards thinking was not to his liking decided to go now. I am sure others like myself have been in a position where you decide (or someone else decides) whether to work your notice or leave immediately. I do not think Geordan was set up to fail, sometimes life is a and things just do not turn out right.

...total revisionism!!!
There was a season before all that, he was out of his depth, his original statement that he was to be instrumental in picking the team (after moving to DOR) was unbelievable in respect of what had gone before. He has extremely poor judgment and I suspect, poorly advised as well.
I was ecstatic when he announced he was leaving, as I felt he was too involved in what was happening on the pitch. The praise he has received from Tigers supporters, regarding his playing career, is well founded and we probably can not praise what he had brought to this club, regarding his on field skills adequately. The problem with having a stellar career and moving into coaching at the same club, is that should it go wrong, then we risk losing him from the club, in all capacity.
I am looking forward to the start of season, absolutely buzzing and we could be in for a great season. So long as we have no more blood letting and the structures are maintained.

[trendylfj]

I could never understand how the role of "director of rugby" fits in with a "head coach? The terminology implies complete control of the rugby, how it is to be played, who is in the team, and who goes. He or she directs the rugby in the club who employs him. Didn't like it when it first came in in other clubs and didn't like it when it appeared in our club. Geordie loves this club to bits and IMHO would have found it difficult to let go of the playing side and when he was asked to leave the DOR role for another in the club, I can totally understand him deciding that was not for him. Cuts have to be made but I am not sure that this was a money-saving option but more of the issue of a role and he clearly didn't like what he was being offered and decided to go. My only issue is that I feel the club should not have made him DOR in the first place only to get rid of the role 2/3 months later. They should have discussed with him where they thought he could fit in when SB had arrived and settled in, and if it was a move away from the rugby side of things, he would have known where he stood. Really sorry to see him depart like this and wish him well for the future.

[RagingBull]

The league wasn't anywhere near competitive as it is now when Howard and Richards was involved TBF.
Not doubting their ability, just stating the league as it is now is a lot closer

[Redstripeman]

I could never understand how the role of "director of rugby" fits in with a "head coach? The terminology implies complete control of the rugby, how it is to be played, who is in the team, and who goes. He or she directs the rugby in the club who employs him. Didn't like it when it first came in in other clubs and didn't like it when it appeared in our club. Geordie loves this club to bits and IMHO would have found it difficult to let go of the playing side and when he was asked to leave the DOR role for another in the club, I can totally understand him deciding that was not for him. Cuts have to be made but I am not sure that this was a money-saving option but more of the issue of a role and he clearly didn't like what he was being offered and decided to go. My only issue is that I feel the club should not have made him DOR in the first place only to get rid of the role 2/3 months later. They should have discussed with him where they thought he could fit in when SB had arrived and settled in, and if it was a move away from the rugby side of things, he would have known where he stood. Really sorry to see him depart like this and wish him well for the future.

...would you not have envisaged, that when the decision was made to bring in Borthwick, Murphy would have been a big part of the discussion and an agreement of where he would fit into the new structure would have been foremost in his mind!!!
Either the roles were not defined, at that time and a fudged agreement was put in place or he was informed at the time that the DOR role expired next season and they (Management) would look to find a way, to incorporate and implement a program retaining Murphy, that had been previously agreed.
Either of the above scenarios does not put Murphy in a good light and suggest a naive approach to a role needing common hardnose sense and due to lacking any of these (in a Coaching and managerial sense) he was then deemed ineffectual and surplus to the needs of a profligate Board, who still attempt to take no responsibility for this debacle.

[Tigerbeat]

My only issue is that I feel the club should not have made him DOR in the first place only to get rid of the role 2/3 months later. They should have discussed with him where they thought he could fit in when SB had arrived and settled in, and if it was a move away from the rugby side of things, he would have known where he stood. Really sorry to see him depart like this and wish him well for the future.

Geordan was given a contract for DOR till the end of the season and approached the Club to try and sort out a longer contract to be told that he would not be offered a DOR contract renewal when it expired. The Club have the hindsight and benefit to make the decisions with information that is not open to everyone and we can all agree of disagree. Times are moving and it may have always been in the plan, to be reviewed.
Nobody, other than Geordan, Peter Toms and Andrea Pinchen know all the details but the Club are always at fault it would appear.

[Redstripeman]

The league wasn't anywhere near competitive as it is now when Howard and Richards was involved TBF.
Not doubting their ability, just stating the league as it is now is a lot closer

...not too sure about this, if you substitute Exeter and Saracens with Tigers and Bath or Wasp!!!
There may be a bunch of similar teams below Exeter and Saracens now and the training has become a major part of the rugby regime, churning out great physical specimens, but if you put up the old Tigers team against your Exeter's and Saracens now, I would have my money on the old Tigers to win.

[Redstripeman]

My only issue is that I feel the club should not have made him DOR in the first place only to get rid of the role 2/3 months later. They should have discussed with him where they thought he could fit in when SB had arrived and settled in, and if it was a move away from the rugby side of things, he would have known where he stood. Really sorry to see him depart like this and wish him well for the future.

Geordan was given a contract for DOR till the end of the season and approached the Club to try and sort out a longer contract to be told that he would not be offered a DOR contract renewal when it expired. The Club have the hindsight and benefit to make the decisions with information that is not open to everyone and we can all agree of disagree. Times are moving and it may have always been in the plan, to be reviewed.
Nobody, other than Geordan, Peter Toms and Andrea Pinchen know all the details but the Club are always at fault it would appear.

..if you were in the same position as Murphy and was informed that your role within a new structure was for one season only, would you have accepted it!!!
After all the flack that he had taken and the marring and complete shredding of his standing within the club in relation to supporters and having the Board agreeing that they will give you anything that you ask for, why would you accept such a situation?
Absolute stupidity, that he should put himself, in that situation!!!

[TigerFeetSteve]

My only issue is that I feel the club should not have made him DOR in the first place only to get rid of the role 2/3 months later. They should have discussed with him where they thought he could fit in when SB had arrived and settled in, and if it was a move away from the rugby side of things, he would have known where he stood. Really sorry to see him depart like this and wish him well for the future.

Geordan was given a contract for DOR till the end of the season and approached the Club to try and sort out a longer contract to be told that he would not be offered a DOR contract renewal when it expired. The Club have the hindsight and benefit to make the decisions with information that is not open to everyone and we can all agree of disagree. Times are moving and it may have always been in the plan, to be reviewed.
Nobody, other than Geordan, Peter Toms and Andrea Pinchen know all the details but the Club are always at fault it would appear.

..if you were in the same position as Murphy and was informed that your role within a new structure was for one season only, would you have accepted it!!!
After all the flack that he had taken and the marring and complete shredding of his standing within the club in relation to supporters and having the Board agreeing that they will give you anything that you ask for, why would you accept such a situation?
Absolute stupidity, that he should put himself, in that situation!!!

Personally if I was in his shoes yes. If I planned to stay in a similar role, I would look to enhance my reputation with a improving team and leave at a time when clubs are looking at recruitment for the following year.

[jgriffin]

Seems to me a sufficient attempt at a hatchet job has been done by RedStripeMan and a sufficient attempt at a defence of GM done by John Griffiths .
Can we put this one to bed now?
I, and Mrs G, are looking forward to spotting anybody in the playing and coaching department left standing by the time we get to WR (let alone stand on the Crumbie Terrace again ). The only ones we will recognise (apart from those we have booed in the past, like SB), are the groundstaff.
I'm sure there is need for a renewed signings/staff thread, complete with likely decapitation dates - bit like revolutionary France, this, at least Smurf wasn't dispatched by Andrea Pinchen while in the ice bath.

[wormus]

My only issue is that I feel the club should not have made him DOR in the first place only to get rid of the role 2/3 months later. They should have discussed with him where they thought he could fit in when SB had arrived and settled in, and if it was a move away from the rugby side of things, he would have known where he stood. Really sorry to see him depart like this and wish him well for the future.

Geordan was given a contract for DOR till the end of the season and approached the Club to try and sort out a longer contract to be told that he would not be offered a DOR contract renewal when it expired. The Club have the hindsight and benefit to make the decisions with information that is not open to everyone and we can all agree of disagree. Times are moving and it may have always been in the plan, to be reviewed.
Nobody, other than Geordan, Peter Toms and Andrea Pinchen know all the details but the Club are always at fault it would appear.

Several people are stating that "Geordan was given a contract for DOR till the end of the season" which I take to be June 2021.
However the Tigers press release of 8th May 2020 makes no reference to this length of contract and no where else have I seen this published so assume it was " Need to know basis / known to a few!"
https://www.leicestertigers.com/news/le ... on-2020-21

Of that announcement Simon Cohen, Ged Glynn, Rob Taylor, Ed Hollis, David Mele, Boris Stankovich, Geordan Murphy and probably others have departed unfortunately.
So much for a "World Class coaching team led by Geordan!"
Tigers have always had a Director of Rugby in Peter Tom and long may his support continue.

[Tiglon]

Seems to me a sufficient attempt at a hatchet job has been done by RedStripeMan and a sufficient attempt at a defence of GM done by John Griffiths .
Can we put this one to bed now?
I, and Mrs G, are looking forward to spotting anybody in the playing and coaching department left standing by the time we get to WR (let alone stand on the Crumbie Terrace again ). The only ones we will recognise (apart from those we have booed in the past, like SB), are the groundstaff.
I'm sure there is need for a renewed signings/staff thread, complete with likely decapitation dates - bit like revolutionary France, this, at least Smurf wasn't dispatched by Andrea Pinchen while in the ice bath.

Unusually, I find myself agreeing with most of jgriffin's post

Few of us will ever know the details and whether GM was treated poorly - even with the details, that is likely a subjective judgement. As someone said, we have muddled our way through to what is probably the right decision. I'm looking forward to see what SB can do.

[ourla]

I could never understand how the role of "director of rugby" fits in with a "head coach?

An historical post from another forum:

John Kingston was the Head Coach at Quins for a long time, and last year stepped up to be DoR. I was at an end of season Q&A with him. He didn't lay it out chapter and verse, but he did make it clear what some of the differences are:

1) the DoR sets the systems the team will use, in consultation with the coaches; the Head Coach and his team implement it. I also got the sense that the DoR sets the overall gameplan for each game, but the Head Coach will define the tactics within that.

2) the DoR hires and fires the squad and coaches. Kingston said that he thought that as Head Coach he had a pretty good understanding of the squad and (by implication) their contracts, but learned a lot more when he became DoR and it changed his mind about the composition of the squad - he hinted that there were players he might have replaced but as DoR was glad he kept.

3) the DoR's role in hands on coaching is very limited. Kingston said that he helped out when asked, but primarily left the job to his coaches. Conor O'Shea, the previous DoR, was the only person on the coaching staff who worked directly with Nick Evans, but Evans was a bit of a special case.

4) the DoR is responsible for the whole playing department, including recruitment into and graduation from the Academy. Interestingly, Kingston said that he focused heavily on the character of potential hires, leaving physical and technical assessment to the coaches. The Head Coach will primarily work with the senior squad.

He didn't discuss week to week team selection, but I would expect that the Head Coach and DoR would discuss it and try to reach consensus, but that ultimately the DoR would have the final say. The Head Coach will be focused on who is performing well right now, whereas the DoR will have an angle on player development and long term player welfare.

[ourla]

as previously agreed moved to D.O.R when Borthwick eventually arrived. In the meantime Jan McGinity had been appointed to a talent spotting and recruitment role surely part of a D.O.R's job.

McGinity was appointed summer 2019 as Head of Elite Performance Recruitment so not "in the meantime.

But as you say it seems to contend with the DoR role and so brings into question the whole appointment of Murphy to this role in the first place.

So glad this was all cleared up on LTTV Friday... not!