TigerFeetSteve wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:23 pm
I've been playing cricket all day, come back see the result, think that's a great performance against one of the top teams in the league, but we're slating the performance on here.
Let's be realistic we're not going to win a game just because we put out our strongest team, Sale put out their best team we pushed them close.
Look I may have missed something as I didn't watch it but I reckon we're on the right path
Shorthand....we're not, we did, you didn't, we are.
Longhand....Sale are 2nd for a reason and we ran them close and looked to have more energy than them at the end, which is massive as a platform for the future. I also refer to my post above and what Steve Diamond had to say after the game.
Scuttle wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:53 pm
Well somebody thinks the coaching team are getting something right...Steve Diamond after today's game:
"They are a different team now that Steve [Leicester head coach Steve Borthwick] has got hold of them. They fight for everything. It's the hardest game we've had this season."
And I am not a Steve Diamond fan, but I have to be fair.
+1 and more.
Patience is something alien to many on here still, making a silk purse out of a sows ear takes time, we as a team(and I see some evidence that we are becoming a team again as apposed to a bunch of talented individuals) will need this next few games to begin a journey that might just take a couple of years to come to fruition.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
Exactly. I can just imagine the furore had Ben kicked the ball out to protect it...
No, but Ford should have been telling him, why didnt Ford speak with Lavanini about his 4 penalties, kicked the ball away all game, poor Captain in this match.
Perhaps George Ford does not yet speak fluent Spanish!
Lavanini needs a Samurai Tigers head guard he is too obvious in blue as Jordan Crane was all those years ago!
To the world you may be just one person.
But to that one person you may be the world!
...we still do not have a ground game so we go to the air!!!
Ford getting stick for today's performance but he has so far been brilliant since the restart. Kicking wasn't accurate and going long was not a bad option as the object was to play in their 22, and playing from there, we just failed to keep the ball in the right areas.
The games have borne the same patterns, the opposition have already got the 5 points in their pockets, before shutting down, leaving Tigers the opportunity to press them due to not been at full strength. As soon as the opportunity arises we mess up, the pressure has now come back on us as opposed to nothing to lose.
Saying all this no reason why next season we are not competing for top 4. Just look at Bristol, it was't too long ago they seemed headed in the wrong direction, the league is not as tough as it used to be, we now have a grown up approach to building back the club.
Not the worst day at the office for Tigers. Looking back, we weren't too far from winning that.
My concern is that we still give away too many tries that just look very easy to score. We need to be more difficult to beat.
Sale are a very good team though and it's no embarrassment to lose to them. In terms of attacking threat, a lot of our players are new to each other and we have a new attack coach. That will take time, but I do think we look more threatening than we used to.
Haven’t posted a ramble on the forum in a long time but frustrated watching and a few beers have led to the below. Sorry in advance. Double apologies if you’ve seen this on the Ultras Facebook group I recently joined. Starting to wonder if they’re all the rugby gurus they proclaim to be given some of the comments...
I thought the game against Irish and the 2nd half against Gloucester were short steps in the right direction. I thought today was a bit of a stumble and a stall to be honest.
Positives:
Last quarter - we seem able to control games at the end which suggests that 80 minute fitness is better. Middle sections though, we still seem leggy, which suggests perhaps our recovery from explosive action still needs work. Also, would be helpful if we were within striking distance by the time the last quarter started!
Freddie Steward - some great takes early on and faded out as we were physically bested and starved of any decent ball. But showed bottle to reappear at the end with some strong running and really clever line to score his try. Has to be shown some faith.
Handro - big, all energy display. He’s not an 8, he’s a 6 but he carried smart, tackled hard and stepped up. Like Kalemafoni but more dynamic IMO, and seemed to rally the forwards. Potential pack leader and he can nail that shirt (6!) down.
Kicking in the last 25 mins - we stopped trying kicks down the middle and instead started raking the corners, which Ford is excellent at and, surprise surprise, we start winning territory. With our lineout work, I don’t know why we didn’t start this earlier.
Ellis - First few displays since lockdown I was worried he was believing his own hype and carrying laterally, getting stripped because he wasn’t looking after the ball etc - it happened in the first 10, and then in the second half really turned it on. Direct carries, smart pick and goes, strong work in the scrum and, I think, a full 80. Really showed up and massive shift.
Negatives:
Kicking - down the middle. Chase was better than in the past but Sale have such a powerful side that even if you tackle them earlier, they will still just build and build and squeeze penalties. It just handed easy possession back and, if we were relying on the low sun forcing errors for the second half, we should have anticipated with our luck that it would go behind a rucking cloud.
Discipline - Defence in the middle of the Park was mostly ok but we handed territory to Sale time and again. I thought some offside calls were nonsense (along with a few others) but some - particularly Tomas - have to adapt quicker to the ref’s viewpoint. Once in the red zone it is difficult for any side to stop a powerful and organised team like Sale or even Exeter’s second string side (ask Saints).
Collisions - This is the big one. We emphatically lost the collisions for the key period of the game. Yes, there were times when it was understandable (clever play in a ruck holding our player leaving Ford trying to stop Manu at full tilt), but other times - particularly when we were carrying - we were battered. Our carriers met 2 Sale tacklers (Leatigaga smashed back), their carriers invariably met one on ones and made metres. For me, this is not about individual power or strength, it is about speed of recycling and varying options. Currently, our runners are almost exclusively off 9, which makes them easy to target, there’s no variation. The ball is slow, which means the defence is set, aggressive and targeted. There is nothing wrong with an old fashioned quick pick and go followed by an aggressive clean out to get the defensive line stepping back and giving your attack that split second more breathing space. We’re just so, so predictable, and then we end up booting the ball away when we stall.
The backs - Pretty harsh because several did good things (Ford, Steward) and without the platform from winning collisions it’s incredibly hard to make stuff happen against modern, organised defences. But Nemani never saw the ball in space and ended up working as an extra forward, FS was silent in attack for 40 minutes and poor David Williams barely got a sniff. When the back 3 are that anonymous you know there’s a problem. When did we last make a clean break? When we did try set moves, we were rattled by the press (made worse by the collisions point, above) or comprehensively misplaced / overran / underran passes so we ended up getting smashed in blind alleys (credit to Sales’s defence). It could be that our backs are learning to implement a new pattern which takes time to execute in a game situation, but it did not look good. Guys like Scott and Taute, who we KNOW have quality and nous, contributed very little in a positive sense.
...
In summary, from an ignorant, non-qualified fan:
Variation of carrying +
Faster clear outs and moving the ball away from rucks quicker +
More responsive discipline =
Guaranteed success and probably the title next year.
I watched the game on the 'Red' button on BT via Sky. One thing puzzled me at the end with Tigers in possession in their 22 but not making any significant progress. At that stage we had one point but were playing for a converted try to get a bonus point win ie five points. Presumably the data analysts know the probability of going the length of the pitch to score a converted try in the last minute? If it's less than 20% then they should've booted the ball out of play for the losing BP. Over a season that could make all the difference between staying up and relegation.
Some will say a win would have been a morale boost but so too would closing the gap to the Not nots and Wuss?
For me discipline killed us in the first half. Defence is still a work in progress, slightly improved on last season but we have Sale lots of penalty advantages to work with which made their life easy in attack.
Nadolo, got to get the ball in this man's hands more. He looked good when he got it but the lack of fluency in our backline was actually painful to watch. Nobody was on the same wavelength.
Liebenburg, what a performance. Best display since he joined, all action display. Most carrying since he joined but the same high work rate. More of that please.
Charlie Clare, should be his last start. Awful lineout error cost us a try and was anonymous in the loose. Lineout didn't looked dialled in with a few throws having to be slapped back rather than caught. Kerr looked good at the lineout and offers lots more in the loose, the difference in scrumming prowess wasn't as noticeable as I expected either.
For the last couple of games we have scored points in the last quarter. Is this a sign of improved fitness and performance or merely that the opposition at that stage had secured the bonus point win and had substituted some significant performers. I think it would be more telling if we were competing for a win over the full 80 minutes. Agree with the comments re Hanro. Best performance yet.
Believe we were flattered by the closeness of the scoreline.That said again we hung in there and could and perhaps should have taken something from the game.A powerful Sale side ,that on there day could beat anyone but to invite pressure by continuing to give (kick) away possession is less than sensible - a trait we seemingly are content to persevere with based on the evidence provided prior and since the restart.I believe, simply put, that we must find a way to concede less points as despite various posts which talk about defensive improvement the stats tell a different story...
Its hard to win games when perpetually conceding territory and (therefor) points.
Conversely, Fred Steward looked the part at Fullback and with more quality attacking options to soon become available there is real chance of improvement.The Set Piece too has looked capable - if a little creaky yesterday (6/9/20) .We must though develop and find ways to win instead of repeating the same errors as it becomes harder to be believe in something with every defeat.This applies for/to both players and supporters.
Long journey,small steps.
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
I'm a little bemused.
Ford's kicking out of hand down field was a poor tactic against a well drilled back line. All it does is come back. If field position was the tactic surely drill it into touch. Rely on our set piece to disrupt. If the tactic was to turn a heavy pack, surely a little grubber every now and then would have been desirable.
Youngs box kick is now boring and predictable. Too far for a chase.The opposition read it and for me Care has overtaken Ben as England's 9 as he mixes the game better. White has to mix his game to take cement his position.
Our forward pack only started to gain the upper hand when Ben was replaced.And Ford kicked to touch.
Having said that, I still believe we have not really clicked. There have been good and bad individual performances. When we click I see great things. I said in previous post we are nearly men. We need time together as 1st XV and 2nd XV to gel and read each others play. SB said our doggedness, grit and desire will make teams realise they have earnt their W the hard way.
Diamond gave praise post match - he is relying on no depth of squad and will not be relishing a return game against Tigers.
Job done....
Forgive my green-tinted spectacles, but I thought the penalty on Lavanini was a load of rubbish. Firstly Lavanini didn't tuck his arm to lead in with the shoulder, he was going to make a tackle. van der Merwe tried to bounce him off, it was a rugby collision and he ended up rebounding backwards before Lavanini got him on the second go.
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni
wellstiger wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:37 am
Youngs box kick is now boring and predictable. Too far for a chase.The opposition read it and for me Care has overtaken Ben as England's 9 as he mixes the game better. White has to mix his game to take cement his position.
Job done....
Whilst I agree with the comments about the predictable box kicking I really don't see how Care has overtaken him at international level.
If England are looking to the future Care is not the solution. He isn't a young an upcoming player and has demonstrated on multiple occasions he can't control a game at international level. Useful for a cameo against tired players, even the that skill is waning as his pace has diminished.
JP14 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:49 am
Forgive my green-tinted spectacles, but I thought the penalty on Lavanini was a load of rubbish. Firstly Lavanini didn't tuck his arm to lead in with the shoulder, he was going to make a tackle. van der Merwe tried to bounce him off, it was a rugby collision and he ended up rebounding backwards before Lavanini got him on the second go.
100% agree. That one was given because it was Lavanini making the tackle, anyone else and the TMO wouldn't have looked again. Reputation can work both ways. You could tell by the looks on the faces of Ford and Lavanini that they thought the decision was rubbish when the referee was explaining it.
