Teams up v Bath

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chipnchase
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by chipnchase » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:18 am

Positives for me today:

Strong start, came out the blocks firing. Like Exeter it’s getting themselves into an 8 point margin. Will come with time.

Zach Henry at 10 look good, carried to the gain line, good vision and has a very physical presence. Will hopefully offer more as the game mount up, would be interesting to see him at 12 with Ford at 10.

Ben White had a very good game for me, even with the pressure of captaincy.

Set piece again looked much better bar the odd personal error (see Lavanini). Good to see the pack win a penalty from an early scrum and pressure the Bath line out for most of the afternoon.

The moans -

Defensively too passive. Realignment woeful and allowed bath to capitalise on front foot ball. Not totally sure what Ford Snr is trying to implement.

Attack, as pointed out in commentary it too pedestrian. Waiting to receive static ball behind the gain line, at no level would you ever deploy this as a game plan. Knock on effect means we never build any phases or create mismatches in defense.

Lavanini - sadly I don’t share the same thoughts as a few on these forums about him. Offers nothing going forward, set piece is average at best, defensively weak and is an absolute liability and penalty machine. If anyone is stupid enough to want to take him off our hands I’ll drive him there myself.

Onwards to Irish! Should hopefully be a more relevant game to see where we are at providing both teams but full strength sides out.

TheTigerKing
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by TheTigerKing » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:32 am

Expected heavy loss.

Young, very inexperienced side who have never played together against a full strength Bath team.

Some positives. Line out looks much improved and the attitude is fantastic.

McPhillips simply doesn't look good enough for this level and clear that Henry isn't fully comfortable at FB but looked good at 10.

Truefollower
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Truefollower » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:47 am

I am so pleased we have such true supporters like Scott 1, so positive just what you need as we strip back and rebuild a league winning side in 6 weeks. It will take SB at least 2 seasons and a lot of heartache on the way. Stay strong and SUPPORT your club.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Coleshillad » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:16 am

In my humble opinion, there's too much focus on the players on this thread. Surely the object of yesterdays selection was to give the coaches and management an opportunity to see how the new and younger players perform in a live game. To spot strengths and weaknesses, partnerships and overall play, to identify primary targets for training and develop game plans. What on earth would a win over that Bath team achieve. Before anyone shouts "confidence", I would say that the players we want are those that come out of the traps next time working to put that defeat well and truly behind them. And, it wasn't a huge stuffing. It could have been worse. The selection made gives the coaches and management plenty to work on. Far more than a 1st team selection and win against Bath. It's next season that's important. Use the rest of this season for rebuilding. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

sapajo
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by sapajo » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:21 am

Truefollower wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:47 am
I am so pleased we have such true supporters like Scott 1, so positive just what you need as we strip back and rebuild a league winning side in 6 weeks. It will take SB at least 2 seasons and a lot of heartache on the way. Stay strong and SUPPORT your club.
Truefollower, please tell us how you define a true supporter and follower?
Last edited by sapajo on Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

Cardiff Tig
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Cardiff Tig » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:22 am

TheTigerKing wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:32 am
McPhillips simply doesn't look good enough for this level and clear that Henry isn't fully comfortable at FB but looked good at 10.
Although if Henry had started at 10 then we wouldn't have kicked any points - he had relatively simple kicks with zero pressure. It doesn't bode well if he can't improve as we don't have an alternative if he starts at 10.

Cardiff Tig
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Cardiff Tig » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:25 am

My main issue with the team selection is that clearly we've targeted one game out of 3 to try and get a result. I honestly don't think that SB and GM got more out of seeing this team get hammered by Bath than playing all 3 fixtures with a better combination of youth and experience.

Big Dai
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Big Dai » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:29 am

The true test of that support would have been relegation. From a playing staff perspective I feel we'd have been better off going down and genuinely re-building at a lower tier.

Business wise it would have been a disaster, that's certain, but playing staff wise I think some of grit could have been re established.

I'm a armchair coach. Just an old bloke who played a different game to today's crash bang wallop affair, but I know cohesion has to be built, evolved and developed. If that comes from a too fragmented approach it won't happen.

Developing a structure takes time. I wonder if, even as we treat these final fixtures as pre season, a season (or two) at a lower level would not have been a better long term medicine for our ills.
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kk20gb30
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by kk20gb30 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:31 am

At least Welford Road was empty of fans to witness this first hand ..... Reaction would have been interesting to say the least.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by HandOfBack » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:49 am

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:22 am
TheTigerKing wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:32 am
McPhillips simply doesn't look good enough for this level and clear that Henry isn't fully comfortable at FB but looked good at 10.
Although if Henry had started at 10 then we wouldn't have kicked any points - he had relatively simple kicks with zero pressure. It doesn't bode well if he can't improve as we don't have an alternative if he starts at 10.

I feel like that wont be too much of an issue. One would assume most of the time Henry is playing, there will be Ford, Hardwick or Worth available to take the tee.

Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:03 am

Martin a big positive, but I really dont like 2nd rows playing 6, needs to spend 20/21 season playing week in & out in the championship.
Henry isn't a full back, we looked far better with Steward there.
Potter has got some gas & looks to get involved.
After getting a bit angry watching some of the errors live, have tempered my opinion, not helped by more poor refereeing decisions, but when the team get better, the decisions follow.
More positives than negatives.
White is a really good solid 9, when the pack step up he will benefit, he is a top notch defensive 9, some assistance YBY will help.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

sam16111986
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:14 am

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:22 am
TheTigerKing wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:32 am
McPhillips simply doesn't look good enough for this level and clear that Henry isn't fully comfortable at FB but looked good at 10.
Although if Henry had started at 10 then we wouldn't have kicked any points - he had relatively simple kicks with zero pressure. It doesn't bode well if he can't improve as we don't have an alternative if he starts at 10.
Play Hardwick at 12 and have Hardwick kick? Fairly obvious solution and Hardwick can happily slot kicks from the halfway line and under pressure.
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:25 am
My main issue with the team selection is that clearly we've targeted one game out of 3 to try and get a result. I honestly don't think that SB and GM got more out of seeing this team get hammered by Bath than playing all 3 fixtures with a better combination of youth and experience.
We played a strong team Vs Exeter. If you see what Exeter did to the much celebrated title contenders Sale it makes our performance against them look better. We've sacrificed this one game. The game Vs LI does look increasingly important in terms of getting a result though.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by BFG » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:30 am

Traveller wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:03 am
This is not intended to be a criticism. It's a genuine query. A player cannot captain England U20's and Tigers (even if it was an under strengthened Tigers) without being a talented player. And it's clear that people with far more knowledge of the game than me really rate him. But, what is it that makes Ben White an exceptional scrum half. I know it is my fault that I don't see it. But I don't. So what exactly am I missing? His running game? Is that exceptional? The quality / speed of his pass? Really? His kicking game being top class? I don't see it. I'm lost.
I don't see it either.
I also don't go for the "people with far more knowledge" argument and especially for a bottom placed team.
Rugby is not rocket science.

JP14
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by JP14 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:42 am

RagingBull wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:51 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:44 pm
You can spin the Bath front five either way - McNally is a 29 year old in his first Premiership season, if Tigers signed him you wouldn't be able to move for all the "why have we signed another mediocre journeyman?" comments. Only Ewels and Stuart have caps. No, not a pushover, no one has said they should have been - but ours definitely shouldn't have been either and yet they were for much of the match.
Boyce is capped.
McNally second season also pretty sure people wanted him when he was briefly linked to us.
Boyce is only capped at U20 level though has been in an EPS before, Dunn should have been capped versus Scotland but Jones has something against him I feel and just wouldn't bring him on.

McNally is a better player than what people credit him for.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

JP14
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by JP14 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:48 am

I thought Kerr played well, his arrows were good and put in a great shot on McConnochie who everyone else seemed unable to tackle.

Defence needs a lot of work.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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