Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

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Ian Cant
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by Ian Cant »

I’m glad ringfencing is coming as it gives all teams a chance to player youngsters who have come through the academy systems.
It also means Premiership teams can budget sensibly to ensure their long term survival.
Hopefully it will also mean teams in the league below can do the same and forge stronger links with the Premiership Clubs nearby.
As we have seen with Tigers and Wasps in seasons past, international call ups and then injuries can wreak havoc with both preseason training and in the season.
I know we haven’t played great the last few seasons but often at away matches I’ve certainly watched us in some games play well enough to get more wins but lose due to injuries and call ups( eg the loss to Worcester away last season being one such example).
Having watched Tigers home and away for 45
years we have always gone through difficult times and there have been many unattractive games: that’s sport. It happens in all sports but having played and coached I firmly believe every game matters but sometimes for whatever reason some games end up being played as if nothing matters. It’s the teams that manage to instil in their players that every game matters that achieve the most success: Deano’s/Johno’s Tigers, Cockerill/ Howard’s Tigers, Dallagio/ Gatland’s Wasps, Bath in the late 70s/80s and Sarries of late followed by Exeter Chiefs.
Hopefully Borthwick will bring the same mentality to the team so that every game matters even in the ringfencing situation.
Dangerous4
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by Dangerous4 »

Very sadly I can see the demise of many a non Premiership club. Some may survive by amalgamating.
Mark62
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by Mark62 »

Dangerous4 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:06 pm Very sadly I can see the demise of many a non Premiership club. Some may survive by amalgamating.
I think as has been mentioned in another thread, the pandemic isn’t responsible for this it has just speeded up the inevitable.
Certainly at the lower levels player numbers and enthusiasm for the game, by adults, has been on the decrease for many years. I’m sure I’m not the only one who remember clubs in the 80s, with clubs putting out 4, 5 even 6 sides plus a colts on a Saturday.
These days many clubs struggle to put 2 sides out. This is bound to have an effect on the upper echelons of the game.
Our only possible saving grace is the many thriving mini and junior sections.
johnthegriff
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by johnthegriff »

Problem is schools, back in the 50's and 60's we had smaller state schools, Grammar, Intermediate and Secondary Modern, all had a Cricket team and a Football or Rugby team representing each year. The probability was that when you arrived in your first year at "big" school you had no experience of rugby and if your new school was a rugby school you were given no choice and were forced to play the game, for some finding a new love or at least an acceptable alternative to soccer. Nowadays most of the giant Comprehensives will offer experience of many sports Football of course but also, Rugby, Basketball, Netball, Handball, Hockey, Tennis, Cricket, Athletics, and others all fitted in narrow slots in the curriculum, it may be good to experience all the alternatives but for minority sports such as rugby you do not have that time throughout the season training one afternoon a week then playing against another school on Saturday mornings and really learning the game. Cricket is in an even worse state as it is crammed into the exam term, how many parents are going to purchase, whites and boots for what may turn out to be just two or three matches before they no longer fit.
Mark62
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by Mark62 »

johnthegriff wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:14 am Problem is schools, back in the 50's and 60's we had smaller state schools, Grammar, Intermediate and Secondary Modern, all had a Cricket team and a Football or Rugby team representing each year. The probability was that when you arrived in your first year at "big" school you had no experience of rugby and if your new school was a rugby school you were given no choice and were forced to play the game, for some finding a new love or at least an acceptable alternative to soccer. Nowadays most of the giant Comprehensives will offer experience of many sports Football of course but also, Rugby, Basketball, Netball, Handball, Hockey, Tennis, Cricket, Athletics, and others all fitted in narrow slots in the curriculum, it may be good to experience all the alternatives but for minority sports such as rugby you do not have that time throughout the season training one afternoon a week then playing against another school on Saturday mornings and really learning the game. Cricket is in an even worse state as it is crammed into the exam term, how many parents are going to purchase, whites and boots for what may turn out to be just two or three matches before they no longer fit.
Excellent post JTG
jgriffin
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by jgriffin »

Spot on post; many PE teachers have no background in rugby, emphasis is on passing continuous government tests scrutinised by OFSTED not passing a ball; many schools have lost the fields, facilities and money; very much depends on local links and TBH most kids in sport don't do it in school. I used to work in a rugby school (Veseys) where the rugby department ended when Zac Feaunati left, and where competing against the independents that got the giants was getting dangerous. Rugby going is a symptom of a society that has lost community (as in S Wales) and found the sport of gratuitous cramming for meaningless tests.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
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Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
chewbacca
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by chewbacca »

Lunchtime circuit training, PE lesson skills training along with the usual athletic pursuits. Winter Tuesday after lessons rugby training, Saturday am game. Summer Saturday athletics meet or cricket. I did hear some rumours that a few odd types did something with a round ball during the winter.
I'm not cynical just experienced
Mark62
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by Mark62 »

jgriffin wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:29 am Spot on post; many PE teachers have no background in rugby, emphasis is on passing continuous government tests scrutinised by OFSTED not passing a ball; many schools have lost the fields, facilities and money; very much depends on local links and TBH most kids in sport don't do it in school. I used to work in a rugby school (Veseys) where the rugby department ended when Zac Feaunati left, and where competing against the independents that got the giants was getting dangerous. Rugby going is a symptom of a society that has lost community (as in S Wales) and found the sport of gratuitous cramming for meaningless tests.
Again excellent post, I wonder if this hasn’t been helped by professional/semi professional rugby.
PE teachers were often top level sportsmen who were often able to pass their expertise on.
As an example I attended Alderman Newtons through the 70s, my PE teachers included John Regan, ex Cardiff, Ray Needham, Leicester Tigers, Bob Sulley, Nottingham, and a bit before my time a certain Keith Fielding.
The only way you get that these days is with a private education
BFG
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by BFG »

I see ringfencing as the last major step towards a fully franchised league.
In my opinion certain clubs involved still aren't stable enough in their current states.
Already happened with Carnegie selling shares to Chiefs.
Ringfencing takes away that ability to make it on merit and it becomes about buying and selling.
Oh and it's possible that cheaters may prosper with no relegation, be careful what you wish for!
JP14
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by JP14 »

Sporting in schools is on the decrease as it is, a problem is funding and government attidudes but I think also a lot of people’s motivation came from having half the school day off when playing matches which doesn’t really happen now...
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

JP14 wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:20 pm Sporting in schools is on the decrease as it is, a problem is funding and government attidudes but I think also a lot of people’s motivation came from having half the school day off when playing matches which doesn’t really happen now...
Since the late 90's at least school's have been losing their sports fields to developers etc. As the government's push for reductions in childhood obesity is focused more on reducing fast food advertising rather than providing good sports facilities for all, I don't see this trend stopping.

I played a little rugby at school, but my school stopped after U13 age groups. I only properly started playing at University
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
JP14
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by JP14 »

All this because sports funding has gone down the drain.
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni
nasher
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by nasher »

Will ring fencing benefit the sport? I personally doubt it. It will become a servant of mammon, a privileged elite motivated and continually in pursuit of money. Rules will be changed to suit the media they are chasing for more money.
Unfortunately the game I played as a youth and followed for years is being destroyed.
The people supposed to be managing and safeguarding the sport have proved their incompetence. Sad times
Mark62
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by Mark62 »

nasher wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:28 pm Will ring fencing benefit the sport? I personally doubt it. It will become a servant of mammon, a privileged elite motivated and continually in pursuit of money. Rules will be changed to suit the media they are chasing for more money.
Unfortunately the game I played as a youth and followed for years is being destroyed.
The people supposed to be managing and safeguarding the sport have proved their incompetence. Sad times
Going to slightly disagree with you here, ring fencing will potentially make careers longer, less pressure to play when injured, and enable clubs to integrate younger players again without the extreme pressure of having to win every game.
This has nothing to do with chasing money, far more to do with clubs existing within their means, without the need for sugar daddys who will disappear at thee drop of a hat.
You possibly haven’t seen the news about the Tigers losing £5 million in revenue and this increasing weekly.
CrumblingTerrace
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Re: Ringfencing almost upon us ?

Post by CrumblingTerrace »

An American-style draft would be a lot of fun.
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